ACOL 5NT opening bid

[MinorKid]

Opener shows a two suiter (preferably both minors) just one Ace or King, in one of the long suit, short of a grand slam on its own. Responder bid the 6 of the cheapest suit that he does not hold an ace or king. Opener may pass if it hits, or to bid the suit that he really concerns. Responder than raise to a grand if he has it.

 

For example, opener has ♦AKQT65 ♣ AQJT532,

Opener open 5NT. If responder has no king of clubs, he response 6♣, in which opener passes. If he has the king, and no diamond ace or king, he bid 6♦ in which opener bids 7♣ knowing the responder has the club keycard. Responder may convert to 7♦.

 

Another example, opener has ♦AQJT532 ♣ AKQT65,

Opener open 5NT. Responder, having no club A or K, bid 6♣. Rebid of 6♦ ask for ace or king of diamonds and be replied 7♣/7♦ if responder has one.

 

I am wondering whether it works for all suits as well.

[Vampyr]

I play it as only the minors. With unknown suits and unknown voids it is impossible for responder to know what to do.

[nige1]

Opener shows a two suiter (preferably both minors) just one Ace or King, in one of the long suit, short of a grand slam on its own. Responder bid the 6 of the cheapest suit that he does not hold an ace or king. Opener may pass if it hits, or to bid the suit that he really concerns. Responder than raise to a grand if he has it.

For example, opener has ♦AQJT532 ♣ AKQT65,

Opener open 5NT.

I play it as only the minors. With unknown suits and unknown voids it is impossible for responder to know what to do.

Minorkid's Acol 5N seems to work most of the time. For example, when opener's 2 suits are...

• Minor. And responder has either Key.
• Round. Ditto,
• Black. Ditto.
• Red: And responder has ♦Key.
• Major: And responder has ♥Key.

Furthermore, you can probably organise conventional continuations so that responder can show grand-preference. The drawback is frequency.

[helene_t]

responder signs off in his prefered minor if he doesn't have a minor suit top honour . if he does have one, we are already in grand. so there is no room for further investigation.

[MinorKid]

I suddenly think out to the blue there is one more drawback. Sometimes responder cannot pick among the two after opener sign off. A 7-6, 6-6 Patten is acceptable while it's a bit tricky with 6-5.

[Zelandakh]

You do not need it for a major in Acol as the traditional meaning for a 5M opening is similar but focusing on that suit. The way the opening is constructed appears to be catering primarily to the minor suit 1-suiter that is not covered by this scheme (as 5m is preemptive). The major issue with the 2-suiters appears to be that we will often play in the wrong suit as no type of preference is given along the way. Helene's version addresses this but will not work for hands with a loser in both suits, nor with the one-suited hands.

[Vampyr]

You do not need it for a major in Acol as the traditional meaning for a 5M opening is similar but focusing on that suit. The way the opening is constructed appears to be catering primarily to the minor suit 1-suiter that is not covered by this scheme (as 5m is preemptive). The major issue with the 2-suiters appears to be that we will often play in the wrong suit as no type of preference is given along the way. Helene's version addresses this but will not work for hands with a loser in both suits, nor with the one-suited hands.

 

You cannot play this with a loser in both suits, nor with 6-5 as mentioned above. 6-6 is OK if the stiff is an ace. You do not want to open with a slam force with more than one loser, do you?

[MinorKid]

I play it as only the minors. With unknown suits and unknown voids it is impossible for responder to know what to do.

 

There is an advantage to play only in minors so that responder have 6♣, 6♦, 7♣ and 7♦ as available choices to play. The draw back is frequency.

There is an advantage to play 6 of a bid suit indicates no key card in the suit, allowing opener to explore. The drawback is that the partnership may play in 6 of a suit responder dosen't have a fit. (Say 6-1)

[Vampyr]

There is an advantage to play only in minors so that responder have 6♣, 6♦, 7♣ and 7♦ as available choices to play. The draw back is frequency.

There is an advantage to play 6 of a bid suit indicates no key card in the suit, allowing opener to explore. The drawback is that the partnership may play in 6 of a suit responder dosen't have a fit. (Say 6-1)

 

This is not a big problem because the suit will be solid (or solid minus A or K.

[Zelandakh]

You cannot play this with a loser in both suits, nor with 6-5 as mentioned above. 6-6 is OK if the stiff is an ace. You do not want to open with a slam force with more than one loser, do you?

Yeah, I was being dumb and mixing it up with the 5M thought. Personally, if I considered these hands worth assigning an opening to, I think I would consider going over to a MisIry-style method or even just assigning 3 or 4NT after a strong 2m opening to be such a two-suiter. It strikes me more as a solution waiting for a problem than the other way about.

[MinorKid]

In case you are wondering, My system often happen to have to play in 6 of the problem suit, which means that opponent may lead our second suit, then take a ruff after we lost a trump A (or K). Quite often we get a bottom score. So I can see Vampyr's point.

Of course on the 7 level this problem dose not exist.

 

On the other hand, there are several ways to show any of such kind of two suiter X, Y. X has a higher rank than Y

1X - any - 6Y

1X - any - 3Y - any - 6Y

1X - any - 3Y - any - 4Y* - any - 6Y * Y must be a minor

 

2♣ - 2♦ - 3X - any - 6Y

2♣ - 2♦ - 3X - any - 4Y* - any - 6Y * Y must be a minor

 

In addition to play strong two , ACOL:

2X - any - 6Y

2X - any - 3Y - any - 6Y

2X - any - 3Y - any - 4Y* - any 6Y * Y must be a minor

 

which make me wonder why we need a system so specified to one and only one missing keycard. :unsure:

[Vampyr]

In addition to play strong two , ACOL:

 

.....which make me wonder why we need a system so specified to one and only one missing keycard. :unsure:

 

Playing Acol Twos to cater to a very rare hand type is not winning bridge. And as for missing only one keycard, well, you could assign some other meaning to a 5NT opening, but what would it mean?

[msjennifer]

Guess I shall never ever get a hand which I shall open 5 NT.

[Kaitlyn S]

Guess I shall never ever get a hand which I shall open 5 NT.

I held one once as a novice but had to overcall. I just overcalled slam in the suit missing the king. My sweetie held my cards at another table and bid the Unusual Notrump and raised the response to slam.

[MinorKid]

Kaitlyn, IMO 5NT works as well in an overcall, probably better than as an opening.

[MinorKid]

Playing Acol Twos to cater to a very rare hand type is not winning bridge. And as for missing only one keycard, well, you could assign some other meaning to a 5NT opening, but what would it mean?

It would be a specified or semi-specified two suiter capable at least 50% chance of small slam.

 

 

On the other hand, all example below may show two suiter ranging from 50% small slam to a likely grand slam. Responder should bid the grand if he thinks he has all the right cards.

For example,

1X - any - 6Y (50% small slam, e.g. missing one ace and one king of different suit)

1X - any - 3Y - any - 6Y (75% small slam, 25% grand slam on its own, e.g. both suit missing kings)

1X - any - 3Y - any - 4Y* - any - 6Y * Y must be a minor (75% small slam, 25% grand slam on its own, both suits missing some quarks)

 

2♣ - 2♦ - 3X - any - 6Y (small slam is certain, 50% grand slam on its own, e.g. missing one keycard)

2♣ - 2♦ - 3X - any - 4Y* - any - 6Y * Y must be a minor (small slam is certain, >50% grand slam on its own, one suit missing some quarks)

 

In addition to play strong two , ACOL:

2X - any - 6Y

2X - any - 3Y - any - 6Y

2X - any - 3Y - any - 4Y* - any - 6Y * Y must be a minor (may provide specified details)

 

Note that opener skipping Blackwood, Exclusion Blackwood and Control cue bids that would mean the hole should be the long suits themselves. Through the some gambling may be involved by the opener style.

[msjennifer]

Once I got a hand,AKQxxx,void,void,AKxxxxx, RHO ,Red,opened 1D and I not knowing what to do ( I was 16 then in 2008) overcalled 1S. LHO 2H,Pass,RHO 4 NT. I paused naturally.I then thought what according to me was a common sense bid and bid 5NT.I imagined,this will show S and C.LHO doubled, Pass pass,and to wake up partner I redoubled.All Pass. Minus 4600. On top of this my partner ,aged 58,told me never to make such silly bids.!

[Vampyr]

Once I got a hand,AKQxxx,void,void,AKxxxxx, RHO ,Red,opened 1D and I not knowing what to do ( I was 16 then in 2008) overcalled 1S. LHO 2H,Pass,RHO 4 NT. I paused naturally.I then thought what according to me was a common sense bid and bid 5NT.I imagined,this will show S and C.LHO doubled, Pass pass,and to wake up partner I redoubled.All Pass. Minus 4600. On top of this my partner ,aged 58,told me never to make such silly bids.!

 

Were you too polite to point out that partner's final pass was silly too?

[Kaitlyn S]

Once I got a hand,AKQxxx,void,void,AKxxxxx, RHO ,Red,opened 1D and I not knowing what to do ( I was 16 then in 2008) overcalled 1S. LHO 2H,Pass,RHO 4 NT. I paused naturally.I then thought what according to me was a common sense bid and bid 5NT.I imagined,this will show S and C.LHO doubled, Pass pass,and to wake up partner I redoubled.All Pass. Minus 4600. On top of this my partner ,aged 58,told me never to make such silly bids.!

I had a similar experience in my youth. 3D P P to me and I held something resembling AKJ9xx, AKJTxx, -, A.

 

I bid 4D, my partner bid 5C, I bid 5D hoping that partner would get the message to bid a major. Partner bid 5NT. (His diamonds were xxxx.) One more time, and I got to play 6D. "I thought they psyched" was his excuse.

 

 

I was 16 then in 2008

With the leches in the bridge community, I'l bet you were (and still are) extremely popular among older male players.

[MinorKid]

IMO 5NT work better as an overcall than as an opening, namely the Condensed Unusual No Trump