High-level Decision

[lamford]

[hv=pc=n&e=skj5hakqj9daq93ck&d=s&v=b&b=7&a=5cppdp5hp]133|200[/hv]

IMPs. Your turn

[kuhchung]

p

[Kaitlyn S]

p

+1

[MrAce]

I'd Pass.

[Jinksy]

I'd bid, though I'm not sure what. I'd hope P would take 6♦ as a cue, in which case I'm bidding that in case he has the two black aces, but at the table I'd probably be too wary and just raise to 6.

 

Phil King has argued based on his database that pulling 4M doubled to the five level should be a strong action - a hand that intends to make opposite a good strong NT. I don't see any reason why the same shouldn't apply (presumably even more so) when pulling 5m, so on that theory I expect P to have at least 6 hearts, probably 7, and some outside values to make up for the crappiness of his suit.

[nige1]

[hv=pc=n&e=skj5hakqj9daq93ck&d=s&v=b&b=7&a=5cppdp5hp]133|200|Lamford writes "IMPs. Your turn"

 

A close decision but I rank

1. 6♥. NAT. What is partner likely to have for his 5♥ bid? Your double covers a wide variety of hands. Hence, with most weak hands, he would pass 5♣X. His ♥ are headed by the ten at most, so he is likely to hold 6+ ♥ and outside values.

2. Pass. NAT. John Matheson admonishes "Don't punish partner for enterprise". Partner is already playing you for a suitable good hand.

 

You should agree about what other continuations mean (especially 5N and 6♣).[/hv]

[rmnka447]

Pass. There's just no way to know what's in partner's hand and no way to find out. All you know is that partner didn't sit for 5 ♣x. For 6 to make partner has to cover 3 of the 4 losers in you hand. Bidding on and expecting to find that is a pretty tall order.

[alok c]

6♥

[alok c]

deleted-double post.

[eagles123]

I think it's pretty close but one things for sure, if there was a BIT before the 5H bid and this hand raised then i would roll it back.

[broze]

This is all about your style of doubling and passing here. For me 5♥ would show a "constructive" hand so I raise.

[lamford]

I think it's pretty close but one things for sure, if there was a BIT before the 5H bid and this hand raised then i would roll it back.

There was no BIT, and it would not tell you anything if there was, as partner could be thinking of passing 5Cx. 6H makes in theory, but partner did not have 20-20 vision and did not drop the stiff KD offside.

[nekthen]

I think south expects to be -2, based on a 9 or 10 card club suit missing the K. I think partner bids, because he thinks 6 is a possibility and he is confident 5 will make. He could have bid 5N (pick a slam) or 6C (with a void). So on balance I will pass. If I had no club loser I would bid 6.

[Jinksy]

There was no BIT, and it would not tell you anything if there was, as partner could be thinking of passing 5Cx. 6H makes in theory, but partner did not have 20-20 vision and did not drop the stiff KD offside.

 

What was P's hand? It sounds like (s)he possibly should have passed on PK's theory (unless there's some reason I've missed why it would be different for 5/5) - but still 6♥ seems like a good slam if it relies only on a finesse into S's hand.

[Fluffy]

partner bid an empty heart suit?, something is not right, and I would need to know my partner to know what is he thinking about. My first instinct is to bid 7, or at least try it.

[miamijd]

The stiff Kc is a very bad holding for slam. Not only is the King worthless, but this is three fewer points your side doesn't have. In addition, you can't be sure partner has to As, either. He could have something like:

 

 

Qxxx xxxxxx Kx x

 

Wouldn't you bid 5H on that? I certainly would.

 

 

Cheers,

Mike

[jogs]

The stiff Kc is a very bad holding for slam. Not only is the King worthless, but this is three fewer points your side doesn't have. In addition, you can't be sure partner has to As, either. He could have something like:

 

 

Qxxx xxxxxx Kx x

 

Wouldn't you bid 5H on that? I certainly would.

 

 

Cheers,

Mike

 

Qxxx xxxx Kxx xx

 

I think this is a 5♥ call.

[Kaitlyn S]

Qxxx xxxx Kxx xx

 

I think this is a 5♥ call.

I'd be surprised if most players didn't take a chance defending 5C with this hand.

[rmnka447]

I suspect, that with something like ♠ xxx ♥ xxxxxx ♦ xxx ♣ x, I'd find a 5 ♥ call. Are those that are suggesting that 5 ♥ shows values mean they would insist on sitting for 5 ♣X with this hand or ones similar to it?

[Phil]

This thread has lost its collective mind.

 

5H shows a really good hand! JDonn's rule for pulling a double at the five level is a "good weak 2 (or better").

 

If partner opened a weak 2h would you really be parking this in game?

[miamijd]

Qxxx xxxx Kxx xx

 

I think this is a 5♥ call.

 

Not even close. Pass in a flash.

[miamijd]

This thread has lost its collective mind.

 

5H shows a really good hand! JDonn's rule for pulling a double at the five level is a "good weak 2 (or better").

 

If partner opened a weak 2h would you really be parking this in game?

 

5H doesn't show a really good hand in expert standard. It shows a hand that thinks 5H will be better than defending 5C.

 

So

 

Qxxx T9xxxxs x x

 

You really think you want to pass 5C here?

[Jinksy]

Qxxx xxxxxx Kx x

 

Qxxx T9xxxxs x x

 

Pass 5♣x on both.

 

Partner has to double on most strong hands that aren't so distributional they can bid their own suit (or cuebid). So if you bid 5♥, you might well find him/her with AKJxx x AQJx AQx (or substantially worse).

 

Part of the reasoning PK gave for needing playing strength to pull is so you have a reasonable chance at bidding your slams.

[MrAce]

I think suggesting bidding 5♥ with only good hands over DBL means = We can not play at 5 level. We either pass or bid slam or grandslam.

 

I would bid 5 on any 6+ card and 0 hcp.

 

My goal is not to bid the only hands where pd can bid slam or grandslam. My priority is to reach to par as much as possible.

 

Especially the way Americans open 5 minor, which is as rare as seeing a unicorn compared to Europeans, because Americans also love to open 4m as natural, passing double wins much less than it is supposed to.

[MrAce]

partner bid an empty heart suit?, something is not right, and I would need to know my partner to know what is he thinking about. My first instinct is to bid 7, or at least try it.

 

Yeah pd has

 

AQx

Txxxxxx

Jx

x