Double or bid (or go gentle into that good night)?

[Jinksy]

[hv=pc=n&w=shak876dq942ca632&d=s&v=e&b=3&a=1s]133|200[/hv]

 

IMP teams. No pressure... but a lot rides on this.

[sfi]

2H, planning to double 2S if I get the chance.

[alok c]

Dbl.

[TylerE]

Passing is obviously right, because this wouldn't be posted if either 2H or X worked.

[nige1]

[hv=pc=n&w=shak876dq942ca632&d=s&v=e&b=3&a=1s]133|200| Jinksy's nightmare "IMP teams. No pressure... but a lot rides on this."

 

I rank

1. Double = T/O. Might miss a 5-3 ♥ fit but this is probably the safest call. If partner passes for penalties, then your void is not an asset -- but you still contribute 3 quick tricks to the defence.

2. 2♥ = NAT. Intending to double next bid by opponents. Drawbacks are that you have only 13 HCP and your ♥s aren't very robust.

3. Pass = NAT. In the long-run, Pass might be the most dangerous call :( [/hv]

[msjennifer]

I feel that only timid ones will Pass.If LHO bids 3 Spade ,will you have the guts then to make a TOD?The principle of fast arrival is applicable here too.A straight forward TOD is the obvious choice.

[msjennifer]

2H, planning to double 2S if I get the chance.

O are your hearts really good for that? Secondly you will never get the chance as the bidding will go LHO 3 S pass pass?

[sfi]

O are your hearts really good for that? Secondly you will never get the chance as the bidding will go LHO 3 S pass pass?

 

No, my hearts aren't great for that, which is why there are two perfectly fine options.

 

The easy one to dismiss is pass. With spade shortage, good values, a 5 card heart suit, and support for the other suits we have to do something. The other easy plan to dismiss is double and bid hearts later. We are nowhere near strong enough for that.

 

So, the question is what to bid, and there are competing factors to weigh. In favour of 2H we have:

- 4H is our most likely game and I'm unlikely to be able to show my fifth heart later.

- If I want to take further action next round, it will be easy to know what to do.

- Partner can't pass the double on some marginal hand, so we can go some way to saving partner in one difficult spot.

- If it is right to penalise them, LHO may well raise spades.

 

In favour of double we have:

- It shows (more or less) 12 of my 13 cards.

- Partner will be better placed to win a partscore battle.

- If partner has a long minor we may bid our making game on a 20 count.

 

The important thing is having some sort of a plan about how to approach the rest of the auction On balance I prefer 2H, but it's not a clearcut action. I'm not going to argue strongly against the double.

 

Would I double 3S for takeout? Probably not, although if the opponents' vibe is right I might do so. They are likely going down and we may not get to 5m even when it's right. It's a price I'm prepared to pay in order to show the fifth heart, and I don't know that I'd rate our chances for game high enough to risk 100 an undertrick at the four level.

[MrAce]

O are your hearts really good for that? Secondly you will never get the chance as the bidding will go LHO 3 S pass pass?

 

I agree with 2♥ overcall and Sfi answered your questions.

If 3♠ by W is preemptive, I would definitely DBL 3♠.

[nullve]

Double. I never overcall 2♥ with only 5 H here unless I've agreed to play split-range Michaels.

[Jinksy]

So, the question is what to bid, and there are competing factors to weigh. In favour of 2H we have:

- 4H is our most likely game and I'm unlikely to be able to show my fifth heart later.

- If I want to take further action next round, it will be easy to know what to do.

- Partner can't pass the double on some marginal hand, so we can go some way to saving partner in one difficult spot.

- If it is right to penalise them, LHO may well raise spades.

 

I also don't have a strong feeling either way, but I would add one more for bidding:

 

- 2H is moderately preemptive. It's conceivable they'll want to bid the minors.

[Tramticket]

I bid 2♥ too - but not because I want to pre-empt them out of bidding the minors. I seem to be well prepared for defence against the minors.

[billw55]

I double. 2♥ is also acceptable. 2♠ even has some merit. No idea why pass is even in the conversation.

[Zelandakh]

I double. 2♥ is also acceptable. 2♠ even has some merit. No idea why pass is even in the conversation.

2♠ has merit?!? :blink: :huh: :angry:

[enjoyelife]

Honestly speaking, most players don't fully understand contract bridge is of cooperation. When we try to get a contract, the most important thing is to find the fit with your partner. As ♥ is superior on bidding and you go it on your own, your partner usually feels troubled without enough support. But after a double you two won't get into any unfavorable fit such as 5-2 and 4-3 or worse ones even that 5-3♥ will be lost.

 

Unless you two are playing MPs by which highers score much better than minors. Otherwise the concept to the solution is team work. Selfishness is a loser in total.

[PhilG007]

[hv=pc=n&w=shak876dq942ca632&d=s&v=e&b=3&a=1s]133|200[/hv]

 

IMP teams. No pressure... but a lot rides on this.

A double for takeout is the only sensible course of action on this

hand. What else is there besides? I would love to see( and maybe snigger

at) the alternatives(!) ;)

[PhilG007]

Honestly speaking, most players don't fully understand contract bridge is of cooperation. When we try to get a contract, the most important thing is to find the fit with your partner. As ♥ is superior on bidding and you go it on your own, your partner usually feels troubled without enough support. But after a double you two won't get into any unfavorable fit such as 5-2 and 4-3 or worse ones even that 5-3♥ will be lost.

 

Unless you two are playing MPs by which highers score much better than minors. Otherwise the concept to the solution is team work. Selfishness is a loser in total.

"Contract Bridge is a game of cooperation" I thought that too but I've found many of my partners were

under the delusion they were playing Solo Whist (!) :rolleyes:

[ggwhiz]

Selfishness is a loser in total.

 

Big overbid that.

 

Red IMP games are where the money is and lho hasn't shown anything yet so even a 5-2 heart fit could produce game. Partnership cooperation comes in when I can double a couple of spades next but TEAM cooperation involves not bringing back +130 instead of +620. Or worse when partner has to bid a 3 card minor.

 

That said I don't mind double instead of 2♥ but actually feel that it is more appropriate at matchpoints (going for any plus) than at imps.

[aawk]

You said a lot is riding on this board. When did you got this information and does partner knows this aswell ? Was it before you played the board or after the fact ? Do you need a game to win, do the opponents need game to win or is a + score in a part score enough.

 

What to do if you knew this before you played the board ?

 

If we need game dbl is your best option forces partner to show his best suit and you jump to game hoping to score 600+. Which could fail if partner has a lot of ♠ and a 3 card ♥ missing 4♥ opposite a bad 3nt.

 

If opponents need game best is to give a overcall of 2♥ so they cannot give a redouble or bid 1nt/2♣/2♦ and partner can support you with a 3+ card ♥ and if he needs to lead against game you want it to be ♥.

 

If we need + in a part score it is best to dbl to give partner 3 suits to pick.

 

 

What if you find out this board was deciding for the match after the fact ?

 

I you dbl you sold your hand and partner must decide what to do if north bids 3s or 4s. Most likely he will pass because you are R/W and a take out bid could be costly in both cases and you will loose a 5-3 fit in ♥. For first to dbl then introduce your 5 card h or give a second dbl the hand is way to weak.

 

Remains a overcall of 2h or pass.

 

If you pass you only got a balancing dbl left if opponents bid not higher then 2♠ or set their contract which only will be a small + score. So passing is no option to get a good result.

 

Remains a overcall of 2h the better option in my opinion considering being R/W.

 

So the choice is between 2h or dbl both can be right or wrong and whatever you did your team mates will say you did it wrong when you lost or praise if you win. If they agree with your action and loosing the match on (only) this board there should be no problem and the style of bridge you choose was not working this time aslong it does in the longrun.

[billw55]

2♠ has merit?!? :blink: :huh: :angry:

In comparison to pass, which was in the poll http://www.bridgebase.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/default/wink.gif

 

edit: oops, misidentified some posters. sorry guys

[Zelandakh]

Honestly speaking, most players don't fully understand contract bridge is of cooperation.

Hello enjoylife and welcome to the BBO forums.

 

Perhaps you misunderstand the idea behind a 2♥ overcall here. A double shows 9 of your cards, which is pretty good, but nonetheless hides a key feature in the 4th and 5th heart. A heart overcall alone surely shows only 5 cards, which on the surface might seem selfish. However, once followed up by a double you are essentially able to get over approximately 11 cards from your hand including the key features of spade shortage and 5 hearts, which actually improves the level of cooperation between yourself and partner.

 

You are new here so can be forgiven for thinking that the level is low but in general the BBF posters are a fairly knowledgeable bunch so it would be wise not to assume stupidity in the first instance to a position taken by more than one or 2 respondents. More likely there is a point behind the position that you have not understood and you should use it as a learning opportunity.

 

Here the choice between double and 2♥ is a close one. It essentially boils down to whether you are willing to double on the second round if it comes back in 3♠. If you are then 2♥ is the more descriptive call; if not then we probably have to double now to avoid losing the opportunity forever. That there are differences of opinion on this is not surprising but to think that either group is making their decision based on selfishness or stupidity is not only insulting but rather completely missing the point. I recommend not calling any other BBF poster stupid (or selfish) again until you are able to spot the crux of the issue on every thread without any doubt about being wrong... ;) <_< B-)

[Zelandakh]

I also note that you are the lone vote for other. What specifically do you advocate?

Jinksy voted for Other, presumably to be able to see the poll results without having to make the extra click and without risking skewing the results. That is a common trick used by OPs. I personally have nothing to advocate besides the obvious double and 2♥ as outlined in the previous (apparently cross-posted) post.

[billw55]

Jinksy voted for Other, presumably to be able to see the poll results without having to make the extra click and without risking skewing the results. That is a common trick used by OPs. I personally have nothing to advocate besides the obvious double and 2♥ as outlined in the previous (apparently cross-posted) post.

Yeah I got that crossed up somehow, fixed my previous post.

 

 

 

[Thiros]

I also don't have a strong feeling either way, but I would add one more for bidding:

 

- 2H is moderately preemptive. It's conceivable they'll want to bid the minors.

 

Indeed, which is why I'm doubling. 2♥ is moderately preemptive, and it's conceivable we'll want to bid the minors. I can easily imagine overcalling 2♥ and playing there when we have a diamond slam.

[ggwhiz]

I had another thought on general approach. I've seen quite a few opponents pass a 2♥ overcall with shortness and a couple of Aces or otherwise constructive values.

 

That (95% or so) NEVER happens in my partnership but if it's your style it's a different degree of risk.