wank Posted October 5, 2016 Report Share Posted October 5, 2016 you're not expecting to bid slam here. having low level bids forcing to cater to optimal game bidding on the small number of awkward shaped hands seems very unnecessary to me when you've got a cuebid and enough space to jump. of course i'm approaching this from what's evidently a narrower range for the original 1H which reduces the need for space to differentiate range (a 4531 4 count is easily in the upper half of my 1H range, so yeah I don't have any qualms about jumping around). it doesn't look like either of us is going to be convinced. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrAce Posted October 5, 2016 Report Share Posted October 5, 2016 you're not expecting to bid slam here. No I am not. And I am not trying to convince you. I simply just not buying the argument to make bids to find the best suit for partscore instead of finding the best game, or whether we have a game or not. By not jumping all over the place with 4432 hands and 2 jack extras. That is not just bad but it is awful imo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wank Posted October 5, 2016 Report Share Posted October 5, 2016 No I am not. And I am not trying to convince you. I simply just not buying the argument to make bids to find the best suit for partscore instead of finding the best game, or whether we have a game or not. By not jumping all over the place with 4432 hands and 2 jack extras. That is not just bad but it is awful imo. well yeah i doubt i would do anything with '4432 and 2 extra jacks'. it's the 4531 shape which gets me excited. to distill the original hand down to HCP on this auction I'd rate it at 6 or more. i'm guessing you'd drive game with a 6 count opposite a cuebid too. perhaps it's more a difference of hand evaluation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alok c Posted October 5, 2016 Report Share Posted October 5, 2016 i'd force to game. exactly how to do that in a way which gets across my major holdings is interesting. 3s now and 4h over 3nt? seems unilateral - partner might have a GF club hand with no spade stop, but i think it's probably a risk you have to take. 3S and stand 3NT? this hand seems much better in a suit and you haven't shown the 5th heart. 3d? partner will think you're looking for 3NT. 2s? not for me - risks being passed out. i'd just bid 2S without the QS.Notwithstanding West's opening hand,does'nt cue bid by North indicate super acceptance of ♥ with a slam interest?What he will bid with AKXX-AKXX-X-AKXX? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaitlyn S Posted October 5, 2016 Report Share Posted October 5, 2016 Notwithstanding West's opening hand,does'nt cue bid by North indicate super acceptance of ♥ with a slam interest?What he will bid with AKXX-AKXX-X-AKXX?I would bid 4D, splinter. Partner would know that xx, Qxxxxx, xxx, xx was awesome. And yes, that is one of the things that the 2D bidder could have. However, there are others since double and bid a suit strongly suggests five or more cards, and double and bid notrump strongly suggests a stopper. So there are a lot of good hands without a 5-card suit, without a stopper, and without a great fit for partner. What would you do with such a hand? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fluffy Posted October 5, 2016 Author Report Share Posted October 5, 2016 Cuebid follow ups is a dark area that partnerships not talk enough about. During years I've seen so many hands where cuebidder just needed to know if he had 3, 4 or 5 cards in front, yet it was impossible. This one was no exception, all partner needs to know on this one is that you have 4-5 majors to reach 6♥ with ♠x ♥AKxxx ♦AKx ♣AKxx. How to also know that ♠A is not there might be difficult because I doubt most players will risk bidding 3♥ over 2♠ expecting partner not to pass. Even worse if you jump to 3♠. Side question, would anyone take 3♠ as splinter? after 1♥ or after 2♦-2♥? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaitlyn S Posted October 5, 2016 Report Share Posted October 5, 2016 Side question, would anyone take 3♠ as splinter? after 1♥ or after 2♦-2♥?Yes to both. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alok c Posted October 5, 2016 Report Share Posted October 5, 2016 I would bid 4D, splinter. Partner would know that xx, Qxxxxx, xxx, xx was awesome. And yes, that is one of the things that the 2D bidder could have. However, there are others since double and bid a suit strongly suggests five or more cards, and double and bid notrump strongly suggests a stopper. So there are a lot of good hands without a 5-card suit, without a stopper, and without a great fit for partner. What would you do with such a hand?Not necessarily when North is interested in slam after 1H by South & a proper distributive hand with South even on 2pts may lead him to a reasonable slam.2D cue is indicative of that.If South reads North's 2D cue properly then 2s-2nt-3h will show his distribution & help North reach 6H. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aguahombre Posted October 8, 2016 Report Share Posted October 8, 2016 One reason why 2♠ after the cue shows a little something, at least for us, is because with a 4-5 Yarb we would have bid 1♠ as our original advance -- prepared, in case partner has a big hand and cues (so we can stay low). I thought this was standard practice for experienced players, and I know it was discussed on these forums back in 2012 or so. Perhaps it isn't a good idea if partner is one of those whose double of 1d just shows 13 cards not necessarily resembling a takeout double. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaitlyn S Posted October 8, 2016 Report Share Posted October 8, 2016 One reason why 2♠ after the cue shows a little something, at least for us, is because with a 4-5 Yarb we would have bid 1♠ as our original advance -- prepared, in case partner has a big hand and cues (so we can stay low).I missed the original discussion but it appears to me that a likely downside of this treatment is that you let the opponents make 3NT when if partner led a heart (your 5-4 fit) you would have beat it (and they might not have bid it, but still you didn't give up a game bonus.) I would think that opener getting to 3NT is a lot more common than your partner having a monster double. I thought this was standard practice for experienced players, and I know it was discussed on these forums back in 2012 or so. Perhaps it isn't a good idea if partner is one of those whose double of 1d just shows 13 cards not necessarily resembling a takeout double.The nice thing about bridge is that millions of people play it, and if you have a partner who doubles with 13 cards that isn't your spouse, there are so many more wonderful partners to try! There aren't many things I call a deal breaker but routinely doubling with a random 13 point hand is one of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nige1 Posted October 8, 2016 Report Share Posted October 8, 2016 [hv=pc=n&s=sq952hj7532dj93c5&d=s&v=0&b=11&a=p1ddp1hp2dp]133|200|fluffy asks "What would you bid?, what is the minimum change in HCP to make a difference?"I rank1. 2♠ = NAT. INV.2. 3♠ = NAT. FG3. 4♥ = Probably OK.4. 3♦ = ART but IMO, misdescriptive.5. 4♣ = SPL. But if this is a splinter; perhaps 3♠ should be, too. [/hv] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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