Trumpality

[Winstonm]

Examples:

In Trumpality, if you complain but then say, "but I'm not complaining," it means you do not complain.

In Trumpality, if you tweet a comment but don't actually say the words out loud it means you never said it.

In Trumpality, saying, "Believe me," makes all preceding statements true, regardless of truthfulness or facts.

In Trumpality, criticism by an so-so American businessman can cause a change in NATO policy toward terrorism.

 

Too bad Trump wasn't born Donald Bane. :P

[Cyberyeti]

https://www.facebook.com/reverbpress/photos/a.747117125377648.1073741830.731244080298286/1124016304354393/?type=3&theater

[kenrexford]

I like Clintonese. In Clintonese, you can say every possible version of what might have happened except what actually did happen and then later claim that you have always been consistent. In Clintonese economics, the stock market booming because interest rates stay artificially low because the economy is so weak is proof the the economy is strong. In Clintonese, you can be completely against the gold standard of trade deals by simply claiming that the deal lacks some unspecified terms that would make it the platinum standard of trade deals. In Clintonese, making hundreds of millions of dollars from Wall Street speaking fees proves that you are looking out for the little guy. In Clintonese, moving from two wars that we are fighting to six wars that others are fighting is good diplomacy. In Clintonese, voting for war with a full intelligence briefing is ok, but responding with no such briefing with "meh" is really bad. In Clintonese religious views, cartoon frogs are the Great Satan.

 

I have to admit...Pepe the Frog is creepy.

[Winstonm]

In Trumpality, being for Trump is rational.

 

Again, I am sure Kenrexford is a very intelligent person so there must be some other reason for him to adopt Trumpality. IMO, it is impossible for the basis of that choice to be cognizance so it must be something else. I can only hope there are fewer of his ilk voting in November than Hillary voters.

[PassedOut]

In Trumpality, being for Trump is rational.

 

Again, I am sure Kenrexford is a very intelligent person so there must be some other reason for him to adopt Trumpality. IMO, it is impossible for the basis of that choice to be cognizance so it must be something else. I can only hope there are fewer of his ilk voting in November than Hillary voters.

He's trolling...

[MrAce]

He's trolling...

 

I don't know. He may be. But coming to USA from a country that is dominantly Islamic, I have seen people who actually believe the kind of stuff Kenrexford says.

In USA I learned 1 thing for sure, if the so called conservatives here and fundamentals in Islamic region were born in same country, they all would be voting for republican party. They simply have identical views, who accidentally born in different regions..

[Vampyr]

He's trolling...

 

Mabe. But he is terrified of immigration. If you only care about one issue, a politician's stance on all other issues, and their character, and their past performance, count for little.

[kenrexford]

Mabe. But he is terrified of immigration. If you only care about one issue, a politician's stance on all other issues, and their character, and their past performance, count for little.

So true. That is why HRC should be excused for her horrible dealings with corrupt organizations, her atrocious record as SoS, her support of TPP, the state of the economy, the debt, and the like. She is strong on abortion.

[Winstonm]

I don't know. He may be. But coming to USA from a country that is dominantly Islamic, I have seen people who actually believe the kind of stuff Kenrexford says.

In USA I learned 1 thing for sure, if the so called conservatives here and fundamentals in Islamic region were born in same country, they all would be voting for republican party. They simply have identical views, who accidentally born in different regions..

Amen!

[hrothgar]

He's trolling...

 

I think that its more likely that he's in the basket of deplorables...

[PassedOut]

I think that its more likely that he's in the basket of deplorables...

It was interesting to see how many people who claim to loathe political correctness had a hissy fit when Hillary slipped up and told the truth about that segment of voters...

[barmar]

I felt really sorry for her that day. She was just saying what most of her supporters think, but when you're the candidate you can't always speak candidly like that.

[barmar]

In Trumpality, saying "I didn't say that" causes all the recordings of you saying that to be erased.

[Winstonm]

He's trolling...

 

I hope that is the case; however, whatever his reasons, I still find the total number of Americans willing to cast a vote for Trump as an extremely troubling sign.

[PassedOut]

I felt really sorry for her that day. She was just saying what most of her supporters think, but when you're the candidate you can't always speak candidly like that.

For sure. But that inevitably leads to the criticism that she's not candid and genuine, and not likeable. Politics is a tough game.

[andrei]

It was interesting to see how many people who claim to loathe political correctness had a hissy fit when Hillary slipped up and told the truth about that segment of voters...

 

47%?

[hrothgar]

It was interesting to see how many people who claim to loathe political correctness had a hissy fit when Hillary slipped up and told the truth about that segment of voters...

 

Most of the folks complaining about political correctness simply object to people criticizing their tribe.

[kenberg]

I felt really sorry for her that day. She was just saying what most of her supporters think, but when you're the candidate you can't always speak candidly like that.

 

I have had a long history of strongly resisting being placed in any basket, even a good basket, whatever that might be. I have come to realize I am a bit extreme in this, and that my reactions sometimes work to my detriment, but I think the general inclination of rejecting such placement is widely shared.

 

Placing people in baskets is not a trait I admire, and when it is applied to me personally I react very badly.

[PassedOut]

47%?

A problem for Romney was that a substantial number of his 47% were older folks on social security who had paid income taxes for most of their lives, and Romney needed votes from that group. Clinton knows she's not going to get votes from Trump's basket of deplorables.

[cherdano]

I have had a long history of strongly resisting being placed in any basket, even a good basket, whatever that might be. I have come to realize I am a bit extreme in this, and that my reactions sometimes work to my detriment, but I think the general inclination of rejecting such placement is widely shared.

 

Placing people in baskets is not a trait I admire, and when it is applied to me personally I react very badly.

 

I presume you aren't retweeting tweets from white supremacist accounts?

[Winstonm]

I have had a long history of strongly resisting being placed in any basket, even a good basket, whatever that might be. I have come to realize I am a bit extreme in this, and that my reactions sometimes work to my detriment, but I think the general inclination of rejecting such placement is widely shared.

 

Placing people in baskets is not a trait I admire, and when it is applied to me personally I react very badly.

What a basket case. :D

[kenberg]

I presume you aren't retweeting tweets from white supremacist accounts?

 

I still have not learned to tweet. [Yes, I understand that is not your point.] Let's get the quote. I found this on WaPo

 

"You know, to just be grossly generalistic, you could put half of Trump's supporters into what I call the 'basket of deplorables'. Right?" Clinton said, per The Washington Post's Abby Phillip. "The racist, sexist, homophobic, xenophobic, Islamaphobic — you name it."

 

So HC herself regards this as grossly generalistic. It's a grab bag, with "you name it" tacked onto the end in case she left anything out as surely she did. And she leaves herself an out. If any individual Trump supporter were to challenge this characterization of him/her she can just say "Of course I didn't mean you, you are not in that half".

 

This is like the preacher railing against the sinners on Sunday. There is no actual content, the faithful can feel they have received a blessing, and then everyone moves on.

 

A cheap thrill, in short. Basically I don't care about it one way or the other, but I think it was a dumb comment.

[kenrexford]

It was not just a dumb comment. It was the kind of comment that a person makes when they are losing the intellectual argument. When you can't win on the ideas you accuse the other person of just being a racist or a homophobe or whatever. The irony is that most of the time when you throw that accusation out as a summarization it is usually inaccurate. The reason it is usually an accurate is that you could make the point with an actual argument if it was true. The fact that you are not making your point with an actual argument but have to resort to name-calling means that you do not have a convincing argument that is correct.

[cherdano]

Ken, I'll just try once to argue this point.

 

It was not just a dumb comment. It was the kind of comment that a person makes when they are losing the intellectual argument. When you can't win on the ideas you accuse the other person of just being a racist or a homophobe or whatever. The irony is that most of the time when you throw that accusation out as a summarization it is usually inaccurate. The reason it is usually an accurate is that you could make the point with an actual argument if it was true. The fact that you are not making your point with an actual argument but have to resort to name-calling means that you do not have a convincing argument that is correct.

 

Trump launched his political career by giving prominence to an obviously racially charged conspiracy theory about the first black US president. He launched his primary campaign with an idea utterly ridiculous (build a wall to protect the US from Mexico from illegal immigrants, at a time when the net immigration from Mexico is negative, and when most of the illegal immigrants enter the US legally) - so utterly ridiculous that anyone who likes it must have a highly distorted world view.

White supremacist groups are genuinely excited about the Trump candidacy, and for good reason. Obviously Trump knew what he was doing when he initially refused to disavow support from David Duke, and then later only did so grudgingly.

Trump has frequently retweeted posts from supremacist twitter accounts (some obviously so), including an obviously anti-semitic one about Hillary. His son (and one of the closest campaign advisors) has retweeted the white supremacist's most popular meme, compared immigrants to poisoned skittles, and thinks that immigration in Europe will lead to a rape epidemic.

Jewish journalists have always been getting their unfair share of anti-semitic email and comments and twitter replies, but very many of them mention that they see A LOT MORE since the Trump campaign became prominent, and many have also said that they have started to encounter anti-semitism in real life (which before Trump they only knew from trips outside the US).

Obviously, Trump himself is highly misogynistic - and not just normal rich-70-year-old-guy-misogynistic, much worse than that.

 

It's also clear that many of his supporters like Trump not despite all of the above, but because of the above.

 

It is clear that Trump has emboldened racists, anti-semites, misogynists, etc., and that they enthusiastically support him. It is genuinely worrisome. I don't know what percentage of Trump supporters they make up, but I don't think it is a negligeable number.

 

That you are unable to see or acknowledge this despite your intellect raises serious questions about your judgement and character.

[kenrexford]

Ok, let me give it a try myself. I won't try to tackle everything because it would take too long. So, I will focus on one part.

 

Immigration and extremists.

 

Within the world of ideas there are people who have all sorts of ideas. There is an assumption that is made good ideas can be put on a linear chart. You imagine that ideas run from the left to the right. Ideas are not on such a line however. An artificial line to group ideas forces ideas to be fit into that linear line which is unfair. Is a tool used to ensure that ideas with which you disagree end up being placed on the line at a point where is close to something insane.

 

The same type of logic is used against liberal thinking. If you allow women choice in childbirth that could be arguably seen as a means of population control. In fact there is some historical precedent for that. It can also be seen as a racist form of population control and there is historical precedent for that as well. But that is idiotic. Ideas are not linear like that.

 

Using the logic that you have used one could argue that anyone who supports freedom of choice for women in childbirth is sympathetic with racist supremacist because racist supremacist were in favor of abortion. In fact you could probably find someone who says that abortion is a good thing because it keeps the population of black people down. That would be completely unfair.

 

That sort of thinking is what leads to idiotic choices. If you have an issue that needs resolution certain ideas are rejected because they seem to be on the spectrum that leads toward white supremacy or radical communism. But because there is no Spectrum in because the spectrum is defined by people who have an agenda the assumption is false.

 

The linear thinking causes people to both unfairly and unjustly attack the other side but also to govern their own decision making no way that is irrational.

 

I'm not in any way advocating in this particular diatribe any conclusion. Rather my point is to chastise the argument technique. The original discussion was on the deplorable comment. That was an example of linear thinking that was improper.