Ugly

[Deanrover]

red v white

 

p-1♦-2♥ to you with

 

♠ QJ9542

♥ A2

♦ -----

♣ JT872

 

Which bid is best?

 

Assume 2 ♠ is forcing.

[jdulmage]

Not really sure your auction here. So it's P-1♦-2♥-??? Your partner has opened 1♦?

 

6-5 is too much to put a double on, you have to be the driver, bid 2♠, if partner rebids 3♦, which is most likely going to happen, I bid 4♣, I want to be in game and if I can get to my partner's hand, I can pitch what surely is a losing heart trick and maybe a club or two if in spades.

[HeartA]

2♠ or dbl. Since I play NFB, 2♠ is obvious.

 

With a pd who doesn't play NFB, I would dbl and bid 3♠ over pd's 3♦. If pd, over my dbl, bid 2♠ or 3♣, I would cue-bid 3♥ and pull 3NT (if pd bid so) to 4 of (black) suit pd bid. If pd bid 2NT over my dbl, I would simply bid 4♠.

[Guest Jlall]

2S for me. Gotta get my suit in sometime.

[Guest Jlall]

And no i don't play NFB.

[cherdano]

I think I would bid 2♠ whether I am playing NFB or not. I just don't want to hide a reasonable 6-card spade suit until opponents jump to 4♥.

[mike777]

2♠ or dbl.  Since I play NFB, 2♠ is obvious.

 

With a pd who doesn't play NFB, I would dbl and bid 3♠ over pd's 3♦.  If pd, over my dbl, bid 2♠ or 3♣, I would cue-bid 3♥ and pull 3NT (if pd bid so) to 4 of (black) suit pd bid.  If pd bid 2NT over my dbl, I would simply bid 4♠.

Common issue:

 

Is NFB "on" standard after a weak jump overcall? If so can anyone quote a source?

 

Alert! In rereading Bergen volume 2, eighth edition 2001 it appears NFB are on.

Alert2 Bergen plays a simple raise of NFB as preemptive, is this standard?

Alert 3 Good Grief he plays NFB 3-11 in theory. I better reread this chapter!

[whereagles]

I bid 2S, and no, I also don't play negative free bids.

[P_Marlowe]

2S nonforcing.

 

You are near maximum for this bid,

but sometimes this happens.

 

With kind regards

Marlowe

[Free]

2♠, NF

[joker_gib]

I bid 2S, and no, I also don't play negative free bids.

Same for me : 2♠ !

 

 

You don't need too much for game even if the ♦ void in partner suit is not great news.

 

 

Alain

[Walddk]

2♠, forcing, so NFB here. Let me worry about the continuation later.

 

Roland

[ochinko]

2♠ (forcing) from me too. A game looks quite probable.

 

Petko

[P_Marlowe]

2♠ or dbl.  Since I play NFB, 2♠ is obvious.

 

With a pd who doesn't play NFB, I would dbl and bid 3♠ over pd's 3♦.  If pd, over my dbl, bid 2♠ or 3♣, I would cue-bid 3♥ and pull 3NT (if pd bid so) to 4 of (black) suit pd bid.  If pd bid 2NT over my dbl, I would simply bid 4♠.

Common issue:

 

Is NFB "on" standard after a weak jump overcall? If so can anyone quote a source?

 

Alert! In rereading Bergen volume 2, eighth edition 2001 it appears NFB are on.

Alert2 Bergen plays a simple raise of NFB as preemptive, is this standard?

Alert 3 Good Grief he plays NFB 3-11 in theory. I better reread this chapter!

Hi,

 

NFB is not necessarily on after a WJO, but that does not mean,

that 2S has to be forcing... :)

 

I play Good-Bad 2 NT, a convention you will probably also find

in "Better Bidding with Bergen" Vol. 2, since this convention was

developed by Bergen.

 

Playing this convention you have the ability describe hands,

1) with which you are only fighting for a part score,

2) with which one wants to force to game,

3) with which one wants only to invite (possible e.g. if you happen to

have the spade suit)

 

The given hand falls in category 1) or 3), depends on your personal

attidtude to life, is your glas always half empty (mine glass always is)

or is it always half full.

 

With kind regards

Marlowe

[Chamaco]

2S would be forcing, guaranteeing 10 points in REAL HCP not only distribution.

It's not a matter of being a point-counter, but rather a matter of cooperation with pard if he has to guess later if doubling or not.

2S must have 1.5/2+ quick tricks in case of defense.

2S would be an assertion: we have the majority of hcps, with all the forcing pass consequences, and if we start overbidding our hand by an Ace, pard will have a hard time deciding whether penalizing or not frisky opps.

So we may stretch 2S with a VERY good 9 (AKQ or similar), but it's the real minimum.

 

I double and bid 3S over any pard's rebid.

Double then suit shows an invitational hand in terms of distribution, usually a 6+ card suit, and that's what we have.

We will not lose spades if he have fit there, but it is true that doing so we might lose a club fit.

 

However, we are likely to lose clubs also if we bid 2S (pard will rebid diamonds 90% of the times, and I do not think we want to rebid 4C, which should show a slammish hand).

 

-----------------------

 

Perhaps this hand is an advertisement for NFB :-)

[hotShot]

2♠, if partner is weak, that is enough, if partner is strong, i'll be able to show ♣ or rise.

[inquiry]

With Misho, I would DBL. This shows 5+ ♠, but is forcing only to the level of 2♠, but artner does not have to bid 2♠. This double can be weak or strong. If partner rebids 2♠ or 3♦ I pass, if he bids 2[nt], I will bid 3♣, if he bids 3♣ I will cue-bid 3♥ and force to game in clubs, if he rebids 3NT, I will put us in 4♠. With everyone else, 2♠ and hope I don't get too high.

 

Ben

[Deanrover]

For those who advocate 2 ♠ non forcing, that is indeed quite appetising, but this was a pick up partnership thus 2 ♠ should be assumed to be forcing IMO.

[P_Marlowe]

For those who advocate 2 ♠ non forcing, that is indeed quite appetising, but this was a pick up partnership thus 2 ♠ should be assumed to be forcing IMO.

Then bid 2S anyway.

It is a 6 card suit, the quality is also ok,

you are near maximum for the nonforcing

call.

 

The only alternative to 2S is double,

But do you trust a pickup partner, that

he knows that the seq.

 

1D - (2H) - X - (Pass)

2NT - (Pass) - 3S - ...

 

shows a weak hand with long spades, because

he should assume, that a direct 2S is forcing?

 

Not for my money.

 

With kind regards

Marlowe

[Chamaco]

For those who advocate 2 ♠ non forcing, that is indeed quite appetising, but this was a pick up partnership thus 2 ♠ should be assumed to be forcing IMO.

Then bid 2S anyway.

 

I disagree.

The forcing 2S should be a "power force", inv+ based on hcp and defensive tricks, close to an opener also in terms of defensive tricks.

 

Those who play 2S as forcing, use dbl and new suit to show length in a decent suit, and invitational values in terms of distribution. This hand complies with this one.

Losing the club suit is annoying, but you will lose the club suit also when you bid 2S and pard repeats diamond (which will happen 90% of the times), so the issue should not be "to lose or not to lose clubs", but rather, to bid more accurately your values in hcp not only shape: since dbl followed by 2 or 3 spades does the job, I'd settle for that.

 

If one does not like this style, muche better change the system and use negative free bids.

[Walddk]

The forcing 2S should be a "power force", inv+ based on hcp and defensive tricks, close to an opener also in terms of defensive tricks

In an ideal world yes, but the world is not ideal. You've got to bid the hand you are dealt, and 2♠, although forcing as I play it, is significantly better than double.

 

Roland

[Chamaco]

The forcing 2S should be a "power force", inv+ based on hcp and defensive tricks, close to an opener also in terms of defensive tricks

In an ideal world yes, but the world is not ideal. You've got to bid the hand you are dealt, and 2♠, although forcing as I play it, is significantly better than double.

 

Roland

Well, if I double at the 2 level and then I bid my suit over pard's rebid (at 2 or 3 level), I show 8+ hcp, with a 6 card suit, and more or less invitational values in terms of ditribution (if I had invitational values in terms of plain hcp, I'd bid a 2/1 directly).

 

This is what we have here, so I double and plan to change suit.

 

the main point is that a 2/1 shows more defensive strength than we have here.

----------------------------

 

Yes, I know this approach is not perfect, and it is exactly for this kind of hands that many play NFB: if one is afraid of the risks of this approach, much better go for NB.

If instead we play 2/1 forcing here, we have to live with this dbl+new suit.

[P_Marlowe]

For those who advocate 2 ♠ non forcing, that is indeed quite appetising, but this was a pick up partnership thus 2 ♠ should be assumed to be forcing IMO.

Then bid 2S anyway.

 

I disagree.

The forcing 2S should be a "power force", inv+ based on hcp and defensive tricks, close to an opener also in terms of defensive tricks.

 

Those who play 2S as forcing, use dbl and new suit to show length in a decent suit, and invitational values in terms of distribution. This hand complies with this one.

Losing the club suit is annoying, but you will lose the club suit also when you bid 2S and pard repeats diamond (which will happen 90% of the times), so the issue should not be "to lose or not to lose clubs", but rather, to bid more accurately your values in hcp not only shape: since dbl followed by 2 or 3 spades does the job, I'd settle for that.

 

If one does not like this style, muche better change the system and use negative free bids.

Hi,

 

the original poster stressed the point, that this is a pickup

partnership, so change of system is not an option.

 

You need to decide, which bid describes your hand best

and which will get you to the your most likely game.

2S says I have a decent spade suit, if you have support we

could try for 4S.

 

We should assume that 2S is forcing, but we are not 100%

sure, so we are guessing.

Partner knows that we are a pickup, as well as that

there are gray areas in a pickup, and he will accept this hand,

as a hand, which lies in the gray area.

 

Making a Double bidding 3S later will lead to the same confusion,

and it maybe, that partner will treat this as a gameforce maybe not,

who knows.

 

If he is not sure, but has some kind of support he will raise 2S to

3S, which I will raise to 4.

Pickup partner tend to overbidding and also forgive overbidding more

easily then underbidding, ... you hear the voice out of the underbidder

camp, do you?

 

With kind regards

Marlowe

[pclayton]

2♠;

 

Your own bids, like your children, are never ugly to you, only to everyone else. ;) :(

[Chamaco]

Making a Double bidding 3S later will lead to the same confusion,

and it maybe, that partner will treat this as a gameforce maybe not,

who knows.

 

Nah.

Pickup partnership should assume some sort of SAYC or 2/1, as most casual pships play on BBO unless agreed otherwise

Double and 2/3S (nonjump), in "standard" SAYC or 2/1 is exactly that hand: no confusion.

 

So just bid it