fred Posted September 11, 2016 Report Share Posted September 11, 2016 Big congrats to forums people Frances Hinden and Gonzalo Goded (Fluffy) for making it to (at least!) the quarter-finals for the World Championships - keep up the good work! Fred GitelmanBridge Base Inc.www.bridgebase.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hrothgar Posted September 11, 2016 Report Share Posted September 11, 2016 Big congrats to forums people Frances Hinden and Gonzalo Goded (Fluffy) for making it to (at least!) the quarter-finals for the World Championships - keep up the good work! Fred GitelmanBridge Base Inc.www.bridgebase.com I echo the congratulations. Anyone know why the term Olympiad was deprecated? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cherdano Posted September 12, 2016 Report Share Posted September 12, 2016 Big congrats to forums people Frances Hinden and Gonzalo Goded (Fluffy) for making it to (at least!) the quarter-finals for the World Championships - keep up the good work! Not sure how many here will be rooting for Fluffy after the ugly Spain-USA incident :angry: :( Anyone know why the term Olympiad was deprecated? Surely must be part of the efforts to please the IOC? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfi Posted September 12, 2016 Report Share Posted September 12, 2016 Not sure how many here will be rooting for Fluffy after the ugly Spain-USA incident :angry: :( Given that the only information I've seen published so far is from the USA team captain, it might be a bit early to make a clear assessment of what really happened. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cherdano Posted September 12, 2016 Report Share Posted September 12, 2016 Given that the only information I've seen published so far is from the USA team captain, it might be a bit early to make a clear assessment of what really happened.I am sure you are right that you have not seen anything other than the post by the USA captain, but others may have read http://wbchampbulletin.org/usa-spain-match-delayed/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfi Posted September 12, 2016 Report Share Posted September 12, 2016 I am sure you are right that you have not seen anything other than the post by the USA captain, but others may have read http://wbchampbulletin.org/usa-spain-match-delayed/ This seems to merely restate the original post, so I'm not sure what it's meant to add to a situation that is likely to see further developments in the near future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Badger Posted September 12, 2016 Report Share Posted September 12, 2016 Well done Fluffy and Frances Hinden! But on a more sober note, all these accusations are just tarnishing the bridge world further. I am glad that Boye Brogeland highlighted the cheating partnerships in the game, but the bridge world needs to draw a line under the recent Bermuda Bowl. I think bridge players who play on the international circuit know now that any indiscretion will be taken seriously by the laws and ethics committee, and a lifetime ban from the game should be obligatory if they are found guilty. I also think if it involves an international team event, that team should also have a five year ban too from playing internationally. Yes, that might seem harsh but it is the only way probably to get the message across that cheats aren't welcome in our game. If you play as a team with cheats, even if your partnership is clean, you are by association cheating too. Period. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billw55 Posted September 12, 2016 Report Share Posted September 12, 2016 Interesting. The allegation is very specific and lends itself to fairly simple observation (and counterexample in particular). But beyond that, was Spain seeking some compensation? Was there a particular board(s) where they thought that they had been damaged by failure to disclose? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cherdano Posted September 12, 2016 Report Share Posted September 12, 2016 This seems to merely restate the original post, so I'm not sure what it's meant to add to a situation that is likely to see further developments in the near future. Ok if you can't read, I won't bother linking to additional information in the future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfi Posted September 12, 2016 Report Share Posted September 12, 2016 Ok if you can't read, I won't bother linking to additional information in the future. You do what you like, but since you posted the link that has the same points as Kriegel's first post on the topic (both of which were edited to add the same information), substantively different versions of what happened have been provided in both the WBF bulletin and on here by one of the Spanish team members. If you are satisfied the agreed facts are publically available and uncontroversial, then good for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrAce Posted September 12, 2016 Report Share Posted September 12, 2016 I am very pissed too, Arend, by this incident and how WBF, Spain and even USA team handled it. And I told this to Gonzalo and he showed the courtesy to explain me and he is not very happy about this incident either. I even wrote to Oren Kriegel, NPC of USA team a personal message in BW. Told him that this is when a captain has big role. And wrote him to do anything he can to clear the minds of players from whatever is going on and focus on 6th segment or we are about to lose this match. That is how much I was emotionally involved and wanted Justin and USA team to win. It did not happen and I am very sad. I wrote how sad I am for Justin losing in Turkish forums and private bridge groups and that it was not fair. But at the end of the day, I do not think Gonzalo made anything that would make me cheer against him in the remaining stages of the event. He is our friend and contributed here in BBF as much as he can and still does. I will cheer for him. They have the momentum. Incident or not, they played head to head against best 4 pros of America. Not sure if the would win if there were no incident. They might as well win. But one thing for sure that they have the momentum and their opponents (New Zealand) is not a very strong team. He has a great opportunity to win this event and yes, I will cheer for him. I think we all should. I am also upset that England lost, because David is my friend and because of Frances who I believe deserved to win this event. (I did not check boards how they did vs Netherlands due to Spain-USA conflict) EDIT: For some reason I thought England match was over, SFI corrected me about this. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfi Posted September 12, 2016 Report Share Posted September 12, 2016 But one thing for sure that they have the momentum and their opponents (New Zealand) is not a very strong team. He has a great opportunity to win this event and yes, I will cheer for him. I think we all should. Sorry, we're cheering for New Zealand down here. Not because of anything that happened in previous matches, but because the NZ team play in Australia a lot and I know those players better. I am also upset that England lost, because David is my friend and because of Frances who I believe deserved to win this event. (I did not check boards how they did vs Netherlands due to Spain-USA conflict) England-Netherlands is only halfway done - don't write the English off yet! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrAce Posted September 12, 2016 Report Share Posted September 12, 2016 England-Netherlands is only halfway done - don't write the English off yet! Oh my, you are right! When I looked at the live scores for some reason I thought it was over. My bad. And of course you have the natural reasons to cheer for NZ. I meant as a BBF er, I cheer for Gonzalo, not that I have anything against NZ. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aberlour10 Posted September 12, 2016 Report Share Posted September 12, 2016 Team Spain seems to be today a step away from entering SFs of the WC, first time ever? What can I say..... Go Gonzo Go! :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted September 13, 2016 Report Share Posted September 13, 2016 ....proving once again that BBO Forums are the epicenter of the bridge world. Timo told me about the incident Sunday. Very surreal that two of my friends are involved on different sides in a situation like this. Maybe Gonzalo wasn't the instigator but he's part of the team and it saddens me. I still think there was a lot of gamesmanship involved here. Still, I'm rooting for Spain to make a deep run. And we all know Frances has loads of raw talent and she has a well-oiled partnership. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrAce Posted September 13, 2016 Report Share Posted September 13, 2016 England closed the gap! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrAce Posted September 13, 2016 Report Share Posted September 13, 2016 5th segment turned out to be a disaster for England. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barmar Posted September 13, 2016 Report Share Posted September 13, 2016 Anyone know why the term Olympiad was deprecated?When bridge (and other mind games) lost its bid to become part of the Olympics, I think WBF decided to stop using this name. Maybe the IOC also pressured them based on trademark issues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
helene_t Posted September 13, 2016 Report Share Posted September 13, 2016 Maybe the IOCSecret Bridge Olympiad also pressured them based on trademark issues.FYP 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mycroft Posted September 13, 2016 Report Share Posted September 13, 2016 Barry, "maybe"? Cute. The ACBL (or AT&T, for that matter) don't have nothing on the IOC in 800 pound elephant territory. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cherdano Posted September 13, 2016 Report Share Posted September 13, 2016 I think it is easy to miss the trees because of all the forest in this incident. Consider just this one tree: the Spanish team captain intentionally interrupted play in the middle of the hand, after the start of an auction that was obviously good for the Americans (a slam hand starting with an uninterrupted strong club opening 1C-1H-1S). This is corroborated by several accounts (including Fluffy's). Edit: here is the traveller for this board - 8/12 tables in the open reached slam - http://www.worldbridge.org/repository/tourn/wroclaw.16/Microsite/Asp/BoardAcrossKO.asp?qboard=001.05.16.1240&qphase=16That alone should arguably lead to a severe penalty for the entire team; at the very least it should lead to the Spanish team captain being expelled from the entire tournament. Gonzalo may well have had nothing to do with the entire affair. But nevertheless after such an action I would never want the Spanish team to win, regardless of whether I root for Fluffy personally. (I guess the only upside of a Spanish win would be that it improves the odds of the WBF being upended - a(nother) title won by a team that should have been disqualified could well help this cause.)Anyone still rooting for the Spanish team hasn't thought this through, or doesn't care about the integrity of the game IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quiddity Posted September 14, 2016 Report Share Posted September 14, 2016 I don't know how severe the penalty ought to have been since I don't know the rules governing what a captain can/cannot do and I haven't seen any account describing the conversation between the captain and the tournament director. I am pretty sure that, given the state of the match, a slam swing hand was not "obviously good for the Americans" regardless of whether they were playing a strong club. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted September 14, 2016 Report Share Posted September 14, 2016 Thought about it more,and what Spain did was very unsporting. See my post on BW if interested. Sorry Gonzalo I can't get behind this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hrothgar Posted September 14, 2016 Report Share Posted September 14, 2016 Thought about it more,and what Spain did was very unsporting. See my post on BW if interested. Sorry Gonzalo I can't get behind this. Live by the sword, die by the sword. The US teams pull all sorts of *****. This time, they are on the receiving end. I feel bad for Justin and his team (I don't know of any cases where they've pulled the type of ***** that Meckwell and Martel are known for)Still, I'm not going to get too worked up over this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted September 14, 2016 Report Share Posted September 14, 2016 Live by the sword, die by the sword. The US teams pull all sorts of *****. This time, they are on the receiving end. I feel bad for Justin and his team (I don't know of any cases where they've pulled the type of ***** that Meckwell and Martel are known for)Still, I'm not going to get too worked up over this. Yeah there's a certain amount of karma here but it doesn't involve the USA players at hand. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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