What does this bid mean?

[movingon]

LHO opens 1 club. Partner over calls 1 diamond. RHO bids 1 heart. You bid 3 spades.

 

What is the 3 spades?

[Cyberyeti]

Splinter for diamonds for us, 2♠ would be fit

[wank]

a pre-empt

[Stefan_O]

In competition, jumps in new suit are "fit showing", i e diamond support + 5 spades.

 

Jump to 2S also shows such distribution, but 3S show more playing-strength, since you are committing to a higher level -- thus, a hand where you have values for a jump to 4D.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fit_showing_jump_bid

 

The article says 5-4/4-5 in the two suits, but when your pd bid a minor and you jump in a major, it should be a 5-card suit to avoid such ambiguity -- it is also the more common case.

 

Holding shortness for splinter in the unbid suit, in such situation, seems extremely rare,

and would also imply you have lots of cards in opps' suits, so does not make sense to jump like that, IMO.

Better start with a cue-bid in opps suit, and check what pd says...

[kenberg]

a pre-empt

 

I thought maybe I was nuts but if I am I guess there are two of us.

[Stefan_O]

I thought maybe I was nuts but if I am I guess there are two of us.

 

pre-empt is probably also playable, if you prefer that, but is it efficient here...?

 

first, who are you preempting...? opps or pd (who might have overcalled on a 17-points hand or so -- or only 8)?

if it is pre-empt, I think you need to define very tightly what your strength should be.

[Stephen Tu]

In competition, jumps in new suit are "fit showing", i e diamond support + 5 spades.

 

Only if you have agreed to fit showing jumps. Hardly something anyone should assume undiscussed. I'd assume natural and nonforcing, preemptive like wank and kenberg without any discussion.

 

Also, even in partnerships where I agree fit-showing jumps, I personally don't play them jumping to a major over partner's minor, as I think showing a long major without any fit for partner and preempting at the same time is rather useful and frequent. Jumping in a minor is somewhat less useful since the opps can outbid you more easily and game/good sac in minor is less likely than in higher ranking major so I am more inclined to play that as fit showing to help judge how high to compete in partner's major. But that's just my opinion. I'd like to be able to show a fist full of spades without having to bid 4 spades, or only 1 spade.

[jogs]

In competition, jumps in new suit are "fit showing", i e diamond support + 5 spades.

 

Jump to 2S also shows such distribution, but 3S show more playing-strength, since you are committing to a higher level -- thus, a hand where you have values for a jump to 4D.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fit_showing_jump_bid

 

The article says 5-4/4-5 in the two suits, but when your pd bid a minor and you jump in a major, it should be a 5-card suit to avoid such ambiguity -- it is also the more common case.

 

Holding shortness for splinter in the unbid suit, in such situation, seems extremely rare,

and would also imply you have lots of cards in opps' suits, so does not make sense to jump like that, IMO.

Better start with a cue-bid in opps suit, and check what pd says...

More playing strength should mean 6-4(or 5-5 in a pinch).

[jogs]

a pre-empt

 

I thought maybe I was nuts but if I am I guess there are two of us.

 

The 1♥ bid is forcing. No one cares about your spades. After you pass two or three times and there is still a chance to chime in with 3♠, bid it. In my 50+ years of playing bridge, it happened once.

[lycier]

[hv=d=e&v=0&b=14&a=1c1d1h?]133|100[/hv]

 

IMO :

Double = 5+♠ with3-card♦ support

1♠ = 5+♠ with denied 3-card ♦ support.

2♠ = 6+♠ with 13-16hcp

3♠ = pre-emptive, weakish.

[Kaitlyn S]

I think the standard treatment of 3S is preemptive.

 

And yes, maybe nobody cares about it, except the opponents who have had all their room stolen and your partner with:

 

S- Ax H- x D- AJxxxx C- AQxx

 

who, against all odds, realizes that 4S is a great contract!

 

3S is playable as a splinter but I think it's more useful as preemptive. I mean, how often are you going to be able to make 6D against opponents bidding 2 suits and your singleton not being in either one of them?

[aawk]

All depends how you show your fit in partners overcall. Normaly a raise in d shows a fit with 0-9 HCP, 2c (cue bid in openings suit opponents) a fit in d with at least 10 HCP and all other bids denie a direct interest in partners overcall.

 

What 3s means depends on your style. Bidding 3s takes a lot of bidding space and in my opinion only makes sence if it is a preemptive bid with at least a 7 card.

[msjennifer]

We play this sequence as preemptive.However if partner is the dealer and opens a major suit I.e.1H/S.and RHO intervenes we use a jump in a MINOR at 4 level as showing a four card honor headed fit and a 5/6 card bid minor headed by two of the three top honors.But on BBO or any,where partner is new ,it is taken by most as a splinter in that minor.So is the given case where the 3 S bid will be taken as preemptive by all .( similar to a weak jump overcall).

[zillahandp]

A pre empt

[Cyberyeti]

I think the standard treatment of 3S is preemptive.

 

And yes, maybe nobody cares about it, except the opponents who have had all their room stolen and your partner with:

 

S- Ax H- x D- AJxxxx C- AQxx

 

who, against all odds, realizes that 4S is a great contract!

 

3S is playable as a splinter but I think it's more useful as preemptive. I mean, how often are you going to be able to make 6D against opponents bidding 2 suits and your singleton not being in either one of them?

 

Well it depends if partner has your hand or Axxx, ?xx, AJxxxxx, void and now knows 5♦ is likely to be cold over 4♥, and also you won't now defend 5♣ without finding the spade ruff(s)

[The_Badger]

hi movingon,

 

It can be interpreted two different ways, depending on agreement. Pre-emptive would be most players' option; though it also could be a hand with a ♦ fit, a side ♠ suit, a sort of 'mixed raise' and a low ODR (Offence/Defence Ratio)

 

These specialised bids were explored by Andrew Robson and Oliver Segal some 20 years ago in the book: Partnership Bidding in Bridge: The Contested Auction. However, whether this sequence would apply is open to question. (I'm more inclined to opt for the pre-empt option.)

 

The idea behind the 'mixed raise' is to provide an alternative opening lead option, and provide information in one bid whether partner should sacrifice or not.

[Left2Right]

Consider two hands from the Advancer's perspective (shown below as south).

Notice the difference between Hand A: http://tinyurl.com/j9g6ohg

and Hand B: http://tinyurl.com/zkf45gt

 

Both hands plausibly start with the same three calls. Hand A easily makes six diamonds; Hand B needs to find 3NT.

 

The key is South's shortness showing bid.

 

One of the principal points of shortness showing bids is to allow the other partner to diagnose Duplication of Value. For auctions on a minor suit pathway, these shortness showing bids are designed not to exceed 3NT. These two hands really underscore why.

[blackshoe]

When are Robson and Segal going to publish their book on the uncontested auction? B-)

[ladydoc]

[hv=d=e&v=0&b=14&a=1c1d1h?]133|100[/hv]

 

IMO :

Double = 5+♠ with3-card♦ support

1♠ = 5+♠ with denied 3-card ♦ support.

2♠ = 6+♠ with 13-16hcp

3♠ = pre-emptive, weakish.

 

I play exactly this and it works. Would not consider any other way.

[Kaitlyn S]

Well it depends if partner has your hand or Axxx, ?xx, AJxxxxx, void and now knows 5♦ is likely to be cold over 4♥, and also you won't now defend 5♣ without finding the spade ruff(s)

Which is more common? And do you really want to go back to your teammates and explain why you allowed your opponents to play the hand when you had the spades? Or are you planning on bidding 4S after the auction (1C) 1D (1H) P (2H) P (4H) ?

[msjennifer]

Which is more common? And do you really want to go back to your teammates and explain why you allowed your opponents to play the hand when you had the spades? Or are you planning on bidding 4S after the auction (1C) 1D (1H) P (2H) P (4H) ?

98 posts in less than One and half months! WOW!

[Caitlynne]

It means whatever your partnership defines it to mean!!

 

I am not trying to be cute here, but rather to emphasize the point that there is no universal meaning. That said, here are among the most commonly used meanings:

 

1. Preemptive. (This is the meaning Goren probably would have given you.)

 

2. Fit showing with spade length.

 

3. Fit showing with shortness in a specific suit (which, usually is played as being in spades - i.e., a Splinter bid).

 

I actually think a Splinter with shortness in spades is a misguided agreement. Three suits have been bid, so you are very unlikely to have shortness in the 4th suit!

[barmar]

It means whatever your partnership defines it to mean!!

That's a cop-out answer, it's true for any "What does this mean?" question.

 

When someone asks a question like this, I think you should assume the context is that you're playing with an unfamiliar partner (a pick-up, an indy, etc.) and you haven't discussed it, but they made the bid. So you need to guess how to interpret it -- what is the most "standard" agreement?

[Kaitlyn S]

That's a cop-out answer, it's true for any "What does this mean?" question.

 

When someone asks a question like this, I think you should assume the context is that you're playing with an unfamiliar partner (a pick-up, an indy, etc.) and you haven't discussed it, but they made the bid. So you need to guess how to interpret it -- what is the most "standard" agreement?

Actually, I think that "It means what you want" is totally legitimate; there are some calls where expert (and also non-expert) opinion is divided and if your random new partner makes it, you have to guess and are quite likely to guess wrong. Common examples are:

 

1C 1H P 1S: Show 4 or 5? Forcing or not? If you think you're gonna get this one right with a random partner more than half the time, good luck!

 

1NT P 3C (or similarly 1NT P 2C P 2S P 3C)

 

1S P 1NT 2D P P Dbl

 

1H P 2C P 3D (when partner has splinters on his profile)

 

1C P 2S

 

1S P 1NT P 3D P 4C (This infamous example is from the Bridge World Master Solvers Club where they gave the same problem from both sides of the table a year apart and many panelists didn't agree with themselves!)

 

1C P 1H 2H

 

Yes, each of them are partnership agreement (it means what you want it to mean.) If you encounter any of these auctions with a random pickup partner, you are reasonably likely to get it wrong because I'm not sure there is any universally agreed upon standard for any of these, and if you boldly say there is a standard, somebody will surely post that they believe your standard treatment is not standard. In many of these, double digit IMPs might depend on whether you guess right or not, although sometimes your hand will tell you what partner thinks the sequence means. You would think - a friend told me of a time he held a void in spades and the auction went 1S P 1NT P 2S Double. He thought partner had a spade stack for the double because he was void but it turns out the 1NT response was soft-pedaling with seven spades and partner was prebalancing.

 

And no, I am not a sock puppet for Caitlynne.

[zillahandp]

Am with you kaitlyn, not yeti's somewhat artifical construction.