Pd coming from pass

[MrAce]

[hv=pc=n&s=sqhkt72dajt542cj7&d=n&v=e&b=9&a=p1s2dp2hp]133|200[/hv]

 

Cross imps.

 

Expert pd.

[Kaitlyn S]

[hv=pc=n&s=sqhkt72dajt542cj7&d=n&v=e&b=9&a=p1s2dp2hp]133|200[/hv]

 

Cross imps.

 

Expert pd.

I'm going to bid 3NT. Partner has S-KJx, QJ9xx, KQ, Q10x. Why else would this problem be here? :lol:

 

Seriously, though, I think that if we can make 4H, partner will bid it if I bid 3H. After all, I've shown the equivalent of an opening hand. I don't want to bid 4H myself and go down facing something like Kxxx, AQJxx, xx, xx. I think there may be too many handling issues to make 4H a decent contract opposite Kxxx, AQJxx, x, xxx.

 

So I'm bidding 3H.

[eagles123]

4H wtp

[Tramticket]

I'm going to bid 3NT. Partner has S-KJx, QJ9xx, KQ, Q10x. Why else would this problem be here? :lol:

 

Seriously, though, I think that if we can make 4H, partner will bid it if I bid 3H. After all, I've shown the equivalent of an opening hand. I don't want to bid 4H myself and go down facing something like Kxxx, AQJxx, xx, xx. I think there may be too many handling issues to make 4H a decent contract opposite Kxxx, AQJxx, x, xxx.

 

So I'm bidding 3H.

 

I think the second of these is unlikely. Partner is far more likely to have a diamond fit - or at least diamond tolerance - when he wakes up like this. I suspect that the opponents might even have a 4♠ contract on this hand.

[The_Badger]

hi MrAce,

 

The easiest bid to make is 4♥ as it takes any decision-making out of the equation. 3♥ to me is a bit neither here or there. Will partner realise you have 4 card ♥ support with that bid?

 

I actually like 2♠. It will give partner an extra bid to describe his hand. My opponents are vulnerable and haven't got involved further, and I can't see them entering the auction now. They have no way to tell (other than your partner not opening the bidding) that you and your partner are minimum at best.

 

However, even bidding 2♠ I really can't see how you don't end up in 4♥ eventually, so eagles123 is probably right: just bid it.

[masse24]

3♥

[kenberg]

My expert partner will have to cope with non-expert me. I raise to 3H.

 

What does parner have? I would place a heavy bet that he has some diamonds. And he has, I trust, some hearts. If he doesn't have hearts he is way too expert for me. Maybe I should just bid 4H but that seems excessive.

 

I am a bit suspicious here though. Partner, as noted, is a passed hand. I have an 11 count. I have one spade. Rho bid 1S and then was quiet. Lho has been quiet throughout. What's up? So I don't get it, but I think partner is supposed to have hearts and, since I haven't said that I have either hearts or a big hand, I think he has (some, not a pile of) diamonds. It doesn't square with the opponent's silence. So I don't get it. But I raise hearts. Let partner figure it out.

[Cyberyeti]

I'm going to bid 3NT. Partner has S-KJx, QJ9xx, KQ, Q10x. Why else would this problem be here? :lol:

 

Seriously, though, I think that if we can make 4H, partner will bid it if I bid 3H. After all, I've shown the equivalent of an opening hand. I don't want to bid 4H myself and go down facing something like Kxxx, AQJxx, xx, xx. I think there may be too many handling issues to make 4H a decent contract opposite Kxxx, AQJxx, x, xxx.

 

So I'm bidding 3H.

 

I don't play with partners who pass 14 counts normally.

 

Partner should have exactly 5 hearts (not opened 2), and probably a 10 count, his diamond holding is unclear.

 

I'd bid 3♥

[MrAce]

I don't play with partners who pass 14 counts normally.

 

Partner should have exactly 5 hearts (not opened 2), and probably a 10 count, his diamond holding is unclear.

 

I'd bid 3♥

 

Not everyone opens 2H when they have 4 card spade on the side. And lack of 2 Spade bid by both E and W suggests pd has at least 4 of them if not 5.

[ggwhiz]

I'm giving partner 4 spades to go with their heart suit to account for the opponents silence, unless they are known palookas.

 

Given a not unlikely stiff diamond over there and I don't expect partner raising 3♥ to game often enough so I'll just bid it and expect a possibly favorable black suit lead.

[Cyberyeti]

Not everyone opens 2H when they have 4 card spade on the side. And lack of 2 Spade bid by both E and W suggests pd has at least 4 of them if not 5.

 

Yeah, but 6-4 in the majors I'd open 1 every time with a 10 count and often with 9 if that's where the points were.

[mike777]

4h with my 6-4 but I can understand 3h.

[MrAce]

Thanks all

 

Pd had

 

KT9xx

A98xx

87

x

 

I raised to 3♥ and he raised to 4.

He reasoned that knowing him coming from pass, I would pass 2♥ with most 5332 6322 or even 2452 hands and 12-14 hcp.

 

4♥ was going down, As 1 ♠ opener had 6 spades but failed to play 2nd ♠

 

Hearts were Qx vs Jx

[Cyberyeti]

Thanks all

 

Pd had

 

KT9xx

A98xx

87

x

 

I raised to 3♥ and he raised to 4.

He reasoned that knowing him coming from pass, I would pass 2♥ with most 5332 6322 or even 2452 hands and 12-14 hcp.

 

4♥ was going down, As 1 ♠ opener had 6 spades but failed to play 2nd ♠

 

Hearts were Qx vs Jx

 

Why is partner raising ? his spades figure to be pretty useless and his heart suit ain't all that.

[kenberg]

I was wondering above about the spades. Now I see they are in partner's hand! The opponents seem to have not found even a hint of their ten card club fit. We have a nine card heart fit, LOTT says 19 total tricks for the heart/club contracts and maybe that's right. We get two hears and a diamond against their club contract and what else? Of course LOTT assumes optimal defense and if they don't get their ruff/promo against our 4S I can live with that.

 

If a defender against 4H is looking at the AK of clubs and sees two clubs on the board I can see why he might think the two clubs will cash.

[MrAce]

I was wondering above about the spades. Now I see they are in partner's hand! The opponents seem to have not found even a hint of their ten card club fit. We have a nine card heart fit, LOTT says 19 total tricks for the heart/club contracts and maybe that's right. We get two hears and a diamond against their club contract and what else? Of course LOTT assumes optimal defense and if they don't get their ruff/promo against our 4S I can live with that.

 

If a defender against 4H is looking at the AK of clubs and sees two clubs on the board I can see why he might think the two clubs will cash.

 

x

Jx

Qxx

Axxxxxx

 

Pd opened 1♠ and RHO overcalled 2♦, what was he supposed to bid? 3♣ is GF. DBL lacks the heart suit.....

[MrAce]

Why is partner raising ? his spades figure to be pretty useless and his heart suit ain't all that.

 

I would not if I were him. Non vulnerable too. And wasn't making anyway despite 2-2 ♥ + spade singleton by me instead of Qx and no wasted ♣ values vs his stiff.

[kenberg]

x

Jx

Qxx

Axxxxxx

 

Pd opened 1♠ and RHO overcalled 2♦, what was he supposed to bid? 3♣ is GF. DBL lacks the heart suit.....

 

True enough. I did not mean that they should have found their clubs. He does not really have a bid.

 

And I wanted to think about LOTT. Indeed it appears that they lose two hearts and a diamond, and take the rest. I have expressed skepticism of the usefulness of LOTT before, and this hand illustrates my main point. It is true that LOTT predicts 19 total club/heart tricks. It is also true that during the auction nobody knew that the club/heart trump total was 19 so they had no way to apply this fact even if they trust the accuracy of LOTT, which I don't. It is often so.

 

I can well imagine the defense here. The spade ace is led and the opening leader, holding the club K and not at all sure another spade is a good idea, figures he will first lead a club to partner's ace, get the club back to his K, and then decide what is best. The best laid plans of mice....

[jogs]

Thanks all

 

Pd had

 

KT9xx

A98xx

87

x

 

I raised to 3♥ and he raised to 4.

He reasoned that knowing him coming from pass, I would pass 2♥ with most 5332 6322 or even 2452 hands and 12-14 hcp.

 

4♥ was going down, As 1 ♠ opener had 6 spades but failed to play 2nd ♠

 

Hearts were Qx vs Jx

Doesn't this line of defense allow 4♥ to make?

You lose 1 spade, 1 diamond and 1 club. Can't pard set up the diamonds for the 10th trick?

[kenberg]

Doesn't this line of defense allow 4♥ to make?

You lose 1 spade, 1 diamond and 1 club. Can't pard set up the diamonds for the 10th trick?

 

I took this to be what he was saying, hence my speculation about the reasonableness of the defense. After the lead of the spade ace it is very hard to be confident that another spade is right. It is not known that a second spade can even be ruffed, let alone ruffed high. A second spade, won by the K in declarer's hand as a club is pitched from the board could be a very bad move. I can well imagine a defender thinking club to Ace, club back to my K, then a spade. If by any chance this works out, fine. If it doesn't work out we have three tricks in the bag an maybe we can get a diamond trick yet. This goes wrong when the club second club gets ruffed, but this was unexpected. This, or some other failed defense, seems very reasonable, it just fails.

 

I understood the explanation to be that 4H goes down, meaning could go down, but it didn't.Even if I am misunderstanding this, it's a tough defense to get right.

[MrAce]

Doesn't this line of defense allow 4♥ to make?

You lose 1 spade, 1 diamond and 1 club. Can't pard set up the diamonds for the 10th trick?

 

 

You lose 1 ♠+1♣+1♠ ruff by W (or trump promotion) and 1 ♦

He started with ♠A.

And then cashed ♣K. I think West now should have find a way to highly discourage the clubs.

 

How would East know declarer had 5 spades?

 

I think he already knows from the auction that N holds at least 4 spades. (pd did not raise spades, holding an Ace, so he has at most 2 spades) If pd is discouraging clubs, he wants spade because he would not ask for diamond. They always take their diamond trick if they have one. As Ken said it is still not easy from East to find the defense even if East knows that West ruffs 2nd spade. Because he also needs to know that he can not cash 2nd ♣, which would be needed if declarer discards 2nd club from dummy on 2nd spade while pd ruffs and when declarer has Q of diamonds.

[kenberg]

Thanks. I was saying a lead to the A at T2 but of course since he has the KQ he just leads the K. And if anyone is going to diagnose that it has to now be a spade instead of another club that will have to be his partner. Maybe ha should. But I have sympathy for failing to do so.