Spot the wimp (2)

[ahydra]

IMPs

 

[hv=pc=n&w=sa543hdt87cak9754&e=sj7hakt4da32cqjt6&d=s&v=e&b=3&a=p1c(1%2B)p1hp1sp2d(ART%20F1)p3c(default%20rebid)p3nppp]266|200[/hv]

 

System is weak NT, 5cM, 1C = 1+ (NAT, 4441 or 15-19 BAL). 2D is 4SF for one round, and 3C is the default rebid basically showing up to about 16 points with no 5th spade, no 3rd heart, no diamond stop.

 

3NT made +1, but 6C is cold - can it be bid?

 

ahydra

[mr1303]

3C doesn't show a 6th club or a good club suit? Then no. You need 3C to show good clubs to make East go past 3NT.

[Stephen Tu]

In these situations I pretty strongly feel that 2♠ should be the default rebid instead of 3♣. It saves a lot of room, and gives responder the usage of 2nt and 3♣ bids. 5-6 hands are really rare and you can bid 3♠ over 2♦ or 2♠ then 3♠.

[MrAce]

IMPs

 

3NT made +1, but 6C is cold - can it be bid?

 

ahydra

 

Yes definitely.

 

I do not like 3 NT by E at all. Not because of missing the slam but he deserved to find West with something like.

 

AKxx

Jx

x

KTxxxx

 

Going down in 3 NT when 6♣ is cold.

 

AKxx

Qx

xx

KT9xx

 

Or in another hand going down in 3 NT when 5 ♣ is cold. It being IMP voids the excuse for bidding 3 NT.

 

AKxx

Jx

xx

KTxxx

[rmnka447]

Once 3 NT is bid, it's virtually impossible to get to the ♣ slam. Even without the 3 NT bid, I'm not sure there is an easy route to 6 ♣ as virtually every card in both hands is carrying its weight and then some. From the 50,000 ft. level it's easy to see the slam is there, but maybe not so easy to figure out at the table.

 

But the objective at IMPs is to find the best game not necessarily the highest scoring game.

 

With opener showing 9+ black cards, ♦ have to be concern at NT. As MrAce points out, there are hands where 3 NT doesn't make but 5 ♣ and 6 ♣ do.

 

Not being familiar with your methods, I'm thinking maybe 3 ♦ here instead of 3 NT asks for ♦ help for NT which should get you to look for the ♣ game.

[mike777]

bidding minor suit slams can be difficult.

 

Playing 2d as not 100% gf makes it even more difficult.

 

 

with all of that said I think this is a very tough 6c to bid and expect most of us to miss it.

[wank]

3nt was just a bad bid.

 

But as others have said, unless you have a fetish for pissing away space, 3c should show 6.

[helene_t]

What exactly does 3♣ show? I believe 4225 should open 1NT if in range which means that 3♣ almost guarantees six clubs. If you need a default rebid for 4225 15-counts and 4135 hands that don't have a diamond stopper then make it 2♠ or 2♥. 3♣ takes away a lot of space.

 

I have some sympathy for 3NT. It is a flaw in the system that E can't make a forcing club raise without bypassing 3NT. I prefer to raise clubs immediately with the East hand but obviously this is not standard.

[The_Badger]

[duplicated]

[The_Badger]

bidding minor suit slams can be difficult.

 

Playing 2d as not 100% gf makes it even more difficult.

 

 

with all of that said I think this is a very tough 6c to bid and expect most of us to miss it.

 

hi mike777

 

I would expect most accomplished Precision Club players would find 6♣ on this hand, as long as they haven't hijacked the opening 2♣ bid for something else.

 

When default bids are introduced into a system that take away natural bids this sort of thing is bound to occur. And I agree with a few others on here - not knowing the system myself - but 3NT looks like a bad, unimaginative or lazy bid, but there again the system may have run out of space to relay further. Time to fine tune the system, methinks.

[Cyberyeti]

It's not difficult after the 1♣(4+)-2♣(inv+ not denying 4M) start we'd have

 

Whether 2♠/3♣ should be your default bid over 2♦ would depend on whether you ever have 5 spades here or open 1♠ with 5 or 6 clubs.

[ggwhiz]

At imps 3nt is particularly bad. 3♦ - 3♠ - 4♣ at least gives west a chance to bid slam or as others have pointed out get to a making game when 3nt doesn't fetch.

[cherdano]

Yes definitely.

 

I do not like 3 NT by E at all. Not because of missing the slam but he deserved to find West with something like.

 

AKxx

Jx

x

KTxxxx

 

Going down in 3 NT when 6♣ is cold.

 

AKxx

Qx

xx

KT9xx

 

Or in another hand going down in 3 NT when 5 ♣ is cold. It being IMP voids the excuse for bidding 3 NT.

 

AKxx

Jx

xx

KTxxx

 

Also KQxx xx xx AKxxx. (Yup they may find a diamond lead even from 3 small on this auction.)

[ahydra]

Thanks all for the replies. I was East - and didn't think much of bidding 3NT with more than enough points and a diamond stop, though the example hands people posted above do make a good point that 9 tricks are by no means a lock. I like rmnka447's suggestion of bidding 3D to ask for a bit more help and then over the expected 4C, bidding 5C. The slam still seems some way off though because I can never be sure partner has a 6th club. The system could use improvement for sure, but partner seems reluctant to embrace the modern 4SF to game methods, I think because he mainly plays pairs where you want to be able to stop in 2NT when it's right.

 

ahydra