Live bridge frustration

[lcsmw]

I haven't played live bridge for 5 years. I'm retired but spending 4 hours playing in a club game isn't a good use of my time, so I play here. About 3 months I decided to play in the Santa Clara regional. I need 3.5 gold points to make life master. I added it to my bucket list.

 

My plan was to find a partner and practice before going to the regional. I posted on my local units online partnership desk and ACBL. No response. I emailed the partnership contact twice with no response. I noticed on the flier that there was a tournament partnership website. I clicked on the link and it said the tournament was over (2015). I emailed the tournament chairman about finding a partner and was told that the online partner desk was no longer being used because the index card system works so well. After exchanging a lot of emails the chairman supposedly put in a card for me. I provided her my phone number and email address. What I was expected to do was show up at the tournament and see if anyone was interested in playing with me. My plan was to drive to the tournament, play two sessions and drive home. Total driving time 2 1/2 hours. I am not willing to do that with only the hope of finding a partner in an open pairs event. I take care of my wife and spending a few days away in a hotel was possible, but not practical.

 

I am 71, retired for two years and was a systems analyst so my brain is still functioning well. I have played bridge for almost 60 years. I took a twelve year break from playing and when I resumed I saw the same players at the tournaments. I was always younger than the field and when I was 66, it was the same.

 

These players, have cell phones, tablets and use the internet, yet finding a partner for live bridge is antiquated. Is there a huge divide between live and online players?

 

Given the number of worldwide players and the technology you would think there would be worldwide gold point events. I understand the issues of hacking and cheating. ACBl could consider having proctored sites like the SAT with communication restricted, but I guess they are happy with the way things are until most of the live players die off.

[Vampyr]

People have found partners for live events on these forums. Otherwise it might be a good idea to find a partner at the local club.

[lcsmw]

People have found partners for live events on these forums. Otherwise it might be a good idea to find a partner at the local club.

 

Which forum? Nothing in the live bridge forum now. I don't have the interest in spending a lot of time at the local club establishing a partnership. It would be about as bad as dating, but that's just me.

[barmar]

People in online forums like this and Bridge Winners are spread all around the world, so finding someone in your local area is going to require quite a bit of luck.

 

If you want to establish a live bridge partnership, I don't think there's any real substitute to going to local clubs.

[lcsmw]

People in online forums like this and Bridge Winners are spread all around the world, so finding someone in your local area is going to require quite a bit of luck.

 

If you want to establish a live bridge partnership, I don't think there's any real substitute to going to local clubs.

 

Google says there are 8.6 million people in my area. I wonder how man of them are on bridgebase.

[barmar]

Google says there are 8.6 million people in my area. I wonder how man of them are on bridgebase.

Lots of them are on BBO. But most BBO users are not active in the forums. Only a few hundred people visit the forums regularly, so I'd be surprised if there are more than 2 or 3 within driving distance of you.

[Stefan_O]

I have played bridge for almost 60 years. I took a twelve year break from playing and when I resumed I saw the same players at the tournaments. I was always younger than the field and when I was 66, it was the same.

 

HA HA HA!! Very funny!! :D :D :D

 

I'm a software developer, started playing 40+ years ago --- then was away for many years --- and now back, have the same experience! :D

[Vampyr]

Which forum? Nothing in the live bridge forum now. I don't have the interest in spending a lot of time at the local club establishing a partnership. It would be about as bad as dating, but that's just me.

 

There is a topic "Looking for partners or teachers" and there are sometimes people looking for someone for a tournament. Anyway it would be useful next time to see whether people who go without a partner usually get paired up. Your local tournament may even have a hosting system.

[The_Badger]

hi lcsmw,

 

My suggestion - love it or loathe it - is to try to get a local/regional newspaper to do an interview with you, have a photo taken, supply your e-mail address, and get it out there in the mainstream media. It might not be quite you, but it's worth a try, I feel.

 

Local/regional papers are always searching for news stories that are little bit different, and to me yours is.

 

My friend has this theory that it is easier to meet a social partner in a bar than on a dating website. And here you are on the biggest potential bridge 'dating' website in the world and are still searching...

 

Good luck with getting those 3.5 gold points. If it's meant to be it will happen :)

[lcsmw]

The last article I read concerning bridge is that in the U.S. it is fading away. I may give on my search for gold. Chess players are ranked by who they have played against recently. Bridge ranking is cumulative. Bridge is a good game for brain stimulation and more people should play it. I didn't feel I was getting my biggest bang for the buck playing in a regional with an unknown partner. Sticking with bridge but moving on to low stakes online no limit holdem tournaments. Poker adds some additional thought processes.

[Stefan_O]

The last article I read concerning bridge is that in the U.S. it is fading away....

 

Yes -- not only in US, I believe...

 

And with all the rage these days around all kinds of "gaming" and an exploding, global industry of computer-games & mobile-games, "e-sports", poker, even boardgames like chess and go,

it is a real mystery --and in my view tragic-- why (it seems) ONLY the bridge-community seems so completely lousy at attracting and interesting more younger players.

 

In spite of its fascinating and unique mix of brain-challenge, competition, "psychology", gambling, team-work, social aspects, and much more -- once you start getting some hang of it --

afaic see, Bridge still really stands out as the yesteryears vanishing "pastime" for aging people only.

(similar to paper-printed newpapers --- their problem is not that their followings give up their subscriptions --- it is: They die!)

 

I just think it's REALLY HARD to understand this failure of recruiting new bridge players.

[The_Badger]

I just think it's REALLY HARD to understand this failure of recruiting new bridge players.

 

It's up to the schools, colleges and universities to promote bridge. However, as it is probably one of the games in the world where seniors can compete at the same level as juniors, it is probably not looked upon as trendy enough for today's younger generation.

 

There's too many distractions elsewhere for today's younger people too, be it physical or mental. And fewer parents playing bridge around the kitchen table will mean fewer children learning the game at home.

[Stefan_O]

It's up to the schools, colleges and universities to promote bridge. However, as it is probably one of the games in the world where seniors can compete at the same level as juniors, it is probably not looked upon as trendy enough for today's younger generation.

 

There's too many distractions elsewhere for today's younger people too, be it physical or mental. And fewer parents playing bridge around the kitchen table will mean fewer children learning the game at home.

 

But I would think you could say just the same about, at least the games of POKER and CHESS.

 

Poker seems to have gained enormously in the internet era (should we start playing Bridge at similar money-stake levels? would that help?)

 

Chess players -- I think you still find quite many at every school or workplace, if you ask around -- presumably, it has also gained popularity from internet-play making it easier to find opponents at any time.

 

Bridge players --- "huh, what's that?" --- they are now few and so far inbetween....

 

Why? Where is the crucial difference??

I just don't see it...

[lcsmw]

I have two newspaper subscriptions. U get most of my national news online. Paper provides local sports, local news, crossword puzzle, sales ads like groceries.

 

My older son has very little interest in bridge. He supported himself for a long time playing poker. He also spends too many hours with phone games. When he plays cards he wants to make money and very few people his age play bridge. I'm trying to learn poker and it's difficult. Making decisions with little information and remembering the behavior patterns of the other players.

[Stefan_O]

I have two newspaper subscriptions. U get most of my national news online. Paper provides local sports, local news, crossword puzzle, sales ads like groceries.

 

My older son has very little interest in bridge. He supported himself for a long time playing poker. He also spends too many hours with phone games. When he plays cards he wants to make money and very few people his age play bridge. I'm trying to learn poker and it's difficult. Making decisions with little information and remembering the behavior patterns of the other players.

 

OK -- did you tell your son there is money-bridge online, too?

 

Maybe that could spawn some interest? :D

[Vampyr]

OK -- did you tell your son there is money-bridge online, too?

 

Maybe that could spawn some interest? :D

 

Or maybe you have a local rubber bridge club?

[alok c]

Yes -- not only in US, I believe...

 

And with all the rage these days around all kinds of "gaming" and an exploding, global industry of computer-games & mobile-games, "e-sports", poker, even boardgames like chess and go,

it is a real mystery --and in my view tragic-- why (it seems) ONLY the bridge-community seems so completely lousy at attracting and interesting more younger players.

 

In spite of its fascinating and unique mix of brain-challenge, competition, "psychology", gambling, team-work, social aspects, and much more -- once you start getting some hang of it --

afaic see, Bridge still really stands out as the yesteryears vanishing "pastime" for aging people only.

(similar to paper-printed newpapers --- their problem is not that their followings give up their subscriptions --- it is: They die!)

 

sI just think it's REALLY HARD to understand this failure of recruiting new bridge player.

Imho Chess has a gold standard (ELO rating) worldwide by virtue of that, lowly tournament players can know their position in the chess universe & can thrive to improve their position in a systematic way.Older generation Bridge players used to be patient & courteous which used to attract new players,nowadays many early middle aged players are so abrasive & knowitall that they repel new entrants.It may be one of the reasons for decline of Bridge.

[nullve]

And with all the rage these days around all kinds of "gaming" and an exploding, global industry of computer-games & mobile-games, "e-sports", poker, even boardgames like chess and go,

it is a real mystery --and in my view tragic-- why (it seems) ONLY the bridge-community seems so completely lousy at attracting and interesting more younger players.

 

In spite of its fascinating and unique mix of brain-challenge, competition, "psychology", gambling, team-work, social aspects, and much more -- once you start getting some hang of it --

afaic see, Bridge still really stands out as the yesteryears vanishing "pastime" for aging people only.

(similar to paper-printed newpapers --- their problem is not that their followings give up their subscriptions --- it is: They die!)

 

I just think it's REALLY HARD to understand this failure of recruiting new bridge players.

Maybe for starters one should stop marketing bridge as a "unique mix of brain-challenge, competition, "psychology", gambling, team-work, social aspects, and much more" when there are games like Dota 2 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dota_2) out there. And maybe not insult the intelligence of young people by telling them that bridge is a game of mental skill while implying that the skill is best measured by accumulated masterpoints.

[helene_t]

My parents started teaching me very simple cardgames when I was three (or four maybe) and then it gradually evolved into rubber bridge when I was ten and Chicago a few years later. When I first found my way to a bridge club I already knew a few conventions and standard leads and carding.

 

I don't see that happening now. People who find their way to the club at the age of retirement still tend to know the basics of trick taking games, but we will soon be in a situation where almost nobody has learned trick taking games at home.

 

Bridge clubs would have to recruit new members who are completely naive to card games. It requires a club evening structure that would allow newbies to play some kind of card game while at the same time being part of the club. In some clubs you can play minibridge or real bridge, and then migrate towards real bridge whenever you are ready. But it requires a new type of marketing, and it requires people to volunteer to become mentors.

[Vampyr]

And maybe not insult the intelligence of young people by telling them that bridge is a game of mental skill while implying that the skill is best measured by accumulated masterpoints.

 

I agree that masterpoints are not a draw for young people, so there is no reason to use them as part of a marketing strategy.

 

Anyway, I think that it is probably true that we middle-aged people are the last to have grown up playing cards with family. Therefore people need to get involved. Volunteer one day a week after school, organise a junior teach-in weekend, if you have kids try to get their friends to come along for an informal home card school. Help a few interested young people start a club at their university. Have competitions for U15, U18. I think that other countries than the US are a bit better at these things, and that we see more kids and teens at the bridge table, who become young adults at the bridge table. I kind of feel that people who have not learnt to play bridge by university age will not take it up, if at all, until much later in life.

[Stefan_O]

Maybe for starters one should stop marketing bridge as a "unique mix of brain-challenge, competition, "psychology", gambling, team-work, social aspects, and much more"...

 

Mmmm... I'm not sure if it is actually 'marketed' that way -- here was just my personal opinion expressed in this forum of already 'hooked' people :)

But if it is... why stop?

 

...when there are games like Dota 2 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dota_2) out there.

 

Not sure I got it.... are you saying, there are other games with similar qualities, and therefore not "unique"?

 

If so -- OK -- but I still would think there are also some differences between Bridge and Dota 2 that would make both of them unique? :)

 

And maybe not insult the intelligence of young people by telling them that bridge is a game of mental skill while implying that the skill is best measured by accumulated masterpoints.

 

I totally agree -- "masterpoints", being more indicative of how long you've been playing the game, rather than how well you have played, I will not miss for a second if they scratched it.

 

A ranking system based on your results in the last few years or so, is clearly much more meaningful.

[nullve]

Mmmm... I'm not sure if it is actually 'marketed' that way -- here was just my personal opinion expressed in this forum of already 'hooked' people :)

Marketed that way (with money) or not, it seems to be the way both bridge players and bridge organisations talk when they try to persuade people to take up the game. For example,

 

Primarily, bridge has been proven to be very good for the mind, and each game played will offer a unique challenge of problems and solutions. Every single deal is different; every deal poses a new problem and can taunt the players to find the solution!

 

The American Jazz composer Duke Ellington famously said, “a problem is your chance to do your best", and it won’t come as a surprise to know that bridge players soon develop special skills in problem solving! It’s frustrating for players when they don’t rise to the challenge, but tremendous when they are successful – whether through finding great technical play, by outwitting their opponents, or by co-operating really well to achieve success with their partner.

 

Secondly, bridge is an excellent social game and can be played by everyone - players can meet new people, make new friends, take on new challenges and learn the game through the many bridge clubs and teachers.

 

Finally, you can play bridge anywhere! You can play locally and nationally; there are open, women’s and mixed; senior and junior events throughout the year. Next time it could be you!

 

So much potential to play this wonderful game!

Probably little of interest to non-bridgeplayers here that isn't equally true of Dota 2.

 

But if it is... why stop?

Because the resources could be spent more efficiently?

 

Not sure I got it.... are you saying, there are other games with similar qualities, and therefore not "unique"?

 

If so -- OK -- but I still would think there are also some differences between Bridge and Dota 2 that would make both of them unique? :)

They're both unique, but that's hardly a reason for picking bridge over Dota 2.

[Kaitlyn S]

And maybe not insult the intelligence of young people by telling them that bridge is a game of mental skill while implying that the skill is best measured by accumulated masterpoints.

Everybody wants to quote this statement and I am no exception.

 

The organizations that want to promote bridge would not serve their interests with a true rating system. Let's look at USCF and ACBL.

 

USCF: you play chess. You play more, you get better. Your rating goes up. Cool.

 

ACBL: Lets assume they implement a true ranking system. Would I go and mentor a friend that is a newer player if it means my rating goes down? Me, if I was still playing in the ACBL, maybe yes, but most people, no. Would I try a new partnership if I cared about my rating? New partnerships have results that tend to be worse than either of the players in an old partnership, so new partnerships that may blossom and become tournament regulars just don't happen. Say I have this one partner that I do well with but he's getting on in years and can only play a couple of games per month. However, we have a great partnership and understand each other so well, so if I play with anyone else, my rating will go down.

 

The ACBL wants people to go out and play with many different partnerships as many times as possible and to go to tournaments as often as possible even if your favorite partners aren't available, and they certainly want people to go out and play with new players, especially young ones that they can hook for 60 years. Putting in an ELO-type system would be an disincentive to players to do exactly what the ACBL wants them to do.

[Stefan_O]

ACBL: Lets assume they implement a true ranking system. Would I go and mentor a friend that is a newer player if it means my rating goes down?

 

Mmmm.... true....

that was the continually recurring complaints when I played on okbridge years ago with their "Lehmann rating".

Even though you were (at least partly) compensated when playing with lower-ranking players,

players kept complaining, it was always their various partners' fault that their rankings were too low :)

 

So Bridge then (as different from chess) would have this partnership issue if replacing the masterpoints with a ranking system...

 

Are there any workable solutions to that?

Anyone got ideas?

[Stefan_O]

Perhaps, one could just let masterpoints expire after 5 years or so.

Only the points you had acquired within the last 5 years would count in the standings...

Then you would not be penalized for playing with a weaker player.

 

That would give younger players a chance to "catch up" much faster and not have to wait until retirement to do so....

 

Maybe you could even have a

"last 1-years" ranking, a

"last 3-years" ranking, and a

"last 5-years" ranking.

 

Problem solved? :)