3rd/4th seat openings

[jeffford76]

Are the rules any looser? This seems like a clear opener in 4th seat to me.

 

[hv=bbo=y&lin=pn|jeffford76,Robot,Robot,Robot|st||md|4ST52HAQT86D853CA5,SQJ64H3DA642CK976,SK983HK972DKQ9C82,SA7HJ54DJT7CQJT43|sv|E|ah|Board%206|mb|P|mb|P|mb|P|mb|P|]640|480[/hv]

[1eyedjack]

I don't think that robots take any account of position when opening. Same with type of scoring and (with possible exception of 3+ pre-empts) vulnerability.

[jdonn]

I don't think that robots take any account of position when opening. Same with type of scoring and (with possible exception of 3+ pre-empts) vulnerability.

That is correct. It would probably be a good idea to have some sort of adjustments for 3rd and 4th seat, but it is a much lower priority than fixing things which are clearly broken.

[lycier]

Are the rules any looser? This seems like a clear opener in 4th seat to me.

 

[hv=bbo=y&lin=pn|jeffford76,Robot,Robot,Robot|st||md|4ST52HAQT86D853CA5,SQJ64H3DA642CK976,SK983HK972DKQ9C82,SA7HJ54DJT7CQJT43|sv|E|ah|Board%206|mb|P|mb|P|mb|P|mb|P|]400|300[/hv]

 

No, this seems unlikely a clear in 4th seat to you in fact, it should know this is a fortunate suits distributions for one time, merely.

Any ideas?

 

Now I would better take my evidence to show my point , that's to say you would probably hold East hand and Gib E will just hold your hand, see its result.

 

[hv=http://www.bridgebase.com/tools/handviewer.html?sn=Robot&s=SA7HJ54DJT7CQJT43&wn=lycier&w=SQJ64H3DA642CK976&nn=Robot&n=SK983HK972DKQ9C82&en=Robot&e=ST52HAQT86D853CA5&d=e&v=o&b=14&a=PPP1D(Minor%20suit%20opening%20--%203+%20%21D%3B%2011-21%20HCP%3B%2012-22%20total%20points)1H(One-level%20overcall%20--%205+%20%21H%3B%208-11%20HCP%3B%209-12%20total%20points)PPP&p=SAS6S9S2CQC9C2CASTS7SQSKDKD3D7DACKC8C5C4H3H7HQH5HAH4D6H2HTHJD4H9DJD2D9D8DTS4DQD5S3S5C3SJC7HKH8CTS8H6CJC6]400|300[/hv]

Result : 1♥E= 80

 

How about it?

So I think Gib N never be a good opener in 4th seat to you, its pass is really good.

[jeffford76]

No, this seems unlikely a clear in 4th seat to you in fact, it should know this is a fortunate suits distributions for one time, merely.

 

Clear opener doesn't mean that I will always get a plus score, just that I think it's more likely than not (here especially because of holding both majors). Showing that if the hands were different it wouldn't have worked isn't really an argument. That's true of almost every bid you ever make.

[lycier]

Clear opener doesn't mean that I will always get a plus score, just that I think it's more likely than not (here especially because of holding both majors). Showing that if the hands were different it wouldn't have worked isn't really an argument. That's true of almost every bid you ever make.

 

Would you suggest whether Gib needs to establish a special bidding rule on 3th/4th seat openings ? Would you mean Gib must open when holds 4432 shape with 11hcp (/12TPs)?

[lycier]

Here I would better make several similar hands to show Gib's bidding rules on 4th seat openings.

 

 

For major suit :

- Hand-1

[hv=http://www.bridgebase.com/tools/handviewer.html?sn=Robot&s=ST52HAQT8D853CA52&wn=Robot&w=SQJ64H3DA642CK976&nn=Robot&n=SK983HK9762DKQ9C8&en=Robot&e=SA7HJ54DJT7CQJT43&d=e&v=o&b=14&a=PPP1H(Major%20suit%20opening%20--%205+%20%21H%3B%2011-21%20HCP%3B%2012-22%20total%20points)P2C!(Drury%20--%203+%20%21H%3B%2011-%20HCP%3B%2010-12%20total%20points)P2D(Invite%20to%20game%20--%205+%20%21H%3B%2013-14%20total%20points)P2H(3+%20%21H%3B%2010-11%20total%20points)PPP&p=SASTS4S3S7S5SJSKH2H4HQH3H8C7HKH5H9HJHAD6S2SQS8C3S6S9D7D3C8CTCAC9C2CKH6C4DKDTD8D4D9DJD5D2CQC5C6H7DQCJHTDA]400|300[/hv]

- Hand-2

[hv=http://www.bridgebase.com/tools/handviewer.html?sn=Robot&s=ST52HAQT8D853CA52&wn=Robot&w=SQJ64H3DA642CK976&nn=Robot&n=SK98HK9762DKQ9C83&en=Robot&e=SA73HJ54DJT7CQJT4&d=e&v=o&b=14&a=PPPP]400|300[/hv]

 

So we would see its bidding rules :

1- 5-card major suit ,11hcp with 13TPs.

2- Gib is sure to open with 12hcp.

 

For minor suit :

A- When holds 12hcp

- Hand-3

[hv=http://www.bridgebase.com/tools/handviewer.html?sn=Robot&s=ST52HAQT82D985CA5&wn=Robot&w=SQJ64H3DA642CK976&nn=Robot&n=SK983HK97DKQJC832&en=Robot&e=SA7HJ654DT73CQJT4&d=e&v=o&b=14&a=PPP1C(Minor%20suit%20opening%20--%203+%20%21C%3B%2011-21%20HCP%3B%2012-22%20total%20points)P1H(One%20over%20one%20--%204+%20%21H%3B%2011-%20HCP%3B%206-12%20total%20points)D(Two%20suit%20takeout%20--%205-%20%21C%3B%204+%20%21D%3B%205-%20%21H%3B%204+%20%21S%3B%2011-%20HCP%3B%2012%20total%20points)R!(Support%20redouble%20-%203%20H%20--%203+%20%21C%3B%203%20%21H%3B%2011-21%20HCP%3B%2012-22%20total%20points)1N(One%20NT%20to%20double%20--%202-5%20%21C%3B%202-5%20%21D%3B%202-4%20%21H%3B%202-4%20%21S%3B%208-11%20HCP%3B%2012-%20total%20points)2S(Limit%20major%20raise%20--%205+%20%21H%3B%2011-%20HCP%3B%2010-12%20total%20points)P3H(3+%20%21C%3B%203%20%21H%3B%2011+%20HCP%3B%2012-14%20total%20points)PPP&p=SQSKSAS5CQCAC7C8HTH3HKH5H7H6HAD6STSJS3S7CKC2C4C5C9C3CTH2D9DADJD3S6S9H4S2DTD8D4DKH9HJHQD2D5S4DQD7S8CJH8C6]400|300[/hv]

 

B- When holds 11hcp

 

- Hand-4

[hv=http://www.bridgebase.com/tools/handviewer.html?sn=Robot&s=ST52HAQT82D85CA52&wn=Robot&w=SQJ64H3DA642CK976&nn=Robot&n=SK983HK976DKQ93C8&en=Robot&e=SA7HJ54DJT7CQJT43&d=e&v=o&b=14&a=PPPP]400|300[/hv]

 

- Hand-5

[hv=http://www.bridgebase.com/tools/handviewer.html?sn=Robot&s=ST52HAQT82D85CA52&wn=Robot&w=SQJ64H3DA642CK976&nn=Robot&n=SK983HK976DKQ93C8&en=Robot&e=SA7HJ54DJT7CQJT43&d=e&v=o&b=14&a=PPPP]400|300[/hv]

 

So we would see its bidding rules :

1- Gib is sure to open when holds 12hcp.

2- Gib will open its minor suit only when holds 5-card minor suit with 11hcp and exact 13TPs.

 

I totally agree with Gib's bidding rules.

 

Any ideas?

[Stephen Tu]

Well it's a moot point since jdonn said GIB isn't making any allowances for 3rd/4th seat openers and it's low priority vs. more egregious bugs.

 

But if they ever get around to it, I'd definitely open at least a point lighter than it is above when holding 8+ cds in the majors and 4 spades. 12+ TP to me is automatic open with 4+/4+ M. It's pretty criminal not to open that 4441 11 hcp hand in 4th chair IMO.

 

There's the old idea of "Pearson points" when contemplating light openers, HCP+ spade length >= 15 to open for hands you aren't opening 1st/2nd. The idea is either you have spade fit yourself, or your spades make the opp's having spade fit less likely, or failing both of those the 4-1 break may make it hard for them to make 2S. With both majors there's just a huge probability you can make 2H or 2S, and opps have to go to the 3 level to outbid you and you can probably beat that with half the deck. It's going to be at least 2-3 good results for every bad one. And even if partner doesn't have a major 1nt can often scramble home.