dickiegera Posted August 21, 2016 Report Share Posted August 21, 2016 [hv=pc=n&e=saq1052hkq6d873c54&d=n&v=0&b=1&a=p1sp2dp]133|200[/hv] What is your bid? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ggwhiz Posted August 21, 2016 Report Share Posted August 21, 2016 Not an opener in 1st or 2nd chair for me, (responder drives to game with 12 counts over these) but I expect to be in the minority. You should include a 2♥ option which I would be tempted by if we opened these hands. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmnka447 Posted August 21, 2016 Report Share Posted August 21, 2016 I can understand some people not opening this hand. But it is a solid 11 HCP hand with 2 1/2 QT, 7 losers, an intermediate in the long suit, and all points working together. So I see no problem opening it. The hand is an absolute minimum opener however. What you rebid may be a function of how you show a minimum hand versus a 2/1 bid. Some folks will play that 2 NT and 2 of the opening major both show minimums. Some of those might also require stoppers in the unbid suits for the 2 NT bid. For those requiring stoppers, this would then have to fall into a 2 ♠ rebid. For those not requiring stoppers, a 2 ♠ rebid presumably shows 6 ♠ while 2 NT shows 5-3-3-2. (But opener might still have to rebid 2 of a major with 5 when holding a hand not good enough for a high reverse -- ♠ AQ10xx ♥ xxx ♦ x ♣ KQxx.) As long as I've opened it, I'm rebidding 2 ♠ no matter how I play 2 NT to give responder maximum room to tell his/her story. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenrexford Posted August 21, 2016 Report Share Posted August 21, 2016 2H. Nothing else even close. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenberg Posted August 21, 2016 Report Share Posted August 21, 2016 It's close as to whether I open, but probably I do. With many I play 2D shows five, but even so I am I am not raising diamonds. I can see the logic of 2H, sort of, but I try to avoid such things. So 2S. Quite possibly we can't make any game anywhere, that's what can happen when you open a bit light playing 2/1, but I did it and now we hope for the best. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted August 21, 2016 Report Share Posted August 21, 2016 2S. Nothing else comes close. This is an opening bid in 2016. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TylerE Posted August 21, 2016 Report Share Posted August 21, 2016 I open pretty light, but I don't open this hand. My 11's that I open 1st/2nd will either be AK suits or have somet sort of distributional upgrade. Having said that, there are essentially 2 approachs here, both of which are playable, just as usual you need to be on the same page with partner. Either 2NT promises extras, and the 2♠ rebid does NOT promise a 6th spade, or 2NT does NOT promise extras and 2♠ *does* promise a 6th spade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaitlyn S Posted August 21, 2016 Report Share Posted August 21, 2016 I open pretty light, but I don't open this hand. My 11's that I open 1st/2nd will either be AK suits or have somet sort of distributional upgrade. Having said that, there are essentially 2 approachs here, both of which are playable, just as usual you need to be on the same page with partner. Either 2NT promises extras, and the 2♠ rebid does NOT promise a 6th spade, or 2NT does NOT promise extras and 2♠ *does* promise a 6th spade.I think the two approaches are: 2NT shows stoppers (not extras) and 2S doesn't promise 6, or 2NT shows any balanced hand (or possibly 5-2-2-4 with weak clubs and a heart stop) and 2S "promises" 6. Both are playable. 3D tends to focus more on diamonds being a final contract. There's not much advantage to bidding 3D to avoid having to bid 2S or 2NT since you still have a problem hand: AQxxx, KQx, xx, xxx and you have to make your decision on this hand, so you might as well make the same decision on the actual hand. The problem with 2H is that partner may drive to a heart slam with H-Axxx and another loser. If you later try to get out of hearts by emphasizing diamonds, partner will play you for a singleton club and misevaluate his hand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenrexford Posted August 21, 2016 Report Share Posted August 21, 2016 Every option has a danger. That said I think everyone would agree that if two hearts does not find a 4 bagger opposite then two hearts turns out to have been the golden bid. If the in contract will be in Spades or no Trump then it to heart rebid will have been just the ticket. Bed where you live. The second beauty is that if the end contract is 4 hearts, we are probably in the right major strain. I would even go so far as to say this. If you were not prepared to rebid two hearts after a Two Diamond response, then you should not have opened this hand one spade. 5332 with KQx in diamonds instead has no rebid problem, as a contrast. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaitlyn S Posted August 21, 2016 Report Share Posted August 21, 2016 Every option has a danger. That said I think everyone would agree that if two hearts does not find a 4 bagger opposite then two hearts turns out to have been the golden bid. If the in contract will be in Spades or no Trump then it to heart rebid will have been just the ticket. Bed where you live.That depends on how much credence your partner puts into your bids when trying to figure out your shape for slam. For example, if your partner is interested in 6D, he will either not think you have 3 diamonds or will not think you have 2 clubs - either of these could be bad news. However, if you habitually bid 2H on these hands, this isn't a problem for you because your partners are aware you might have 3 hearts. My partners may make some really bad assumptions while looking for slam about my distribution. The second beauty is that if the end contract is 4 hearts, we are probably in the right major strain.I think I'd rather be in 4S opposite Kx, 10xxx, AKQxx, Qx or Jx, Axxx, AKQxx, xx. I would even go so far as to say this. If you were not prepared to rebid two hearts after a Two Diamond response, then you should not have opened this hand one spade. I disagree. If your partnership doesn't promise stoppers with 2NT, then 2NT is okay. If your partnership instead doesn't promise 6 spades with 2S, then what's the problem with a 2S rebid? 5332 with KQx in diamonds instead has no rebid problem, as a contrast.Again, it depends on how seriously your partner takes your distribution when looking for slam. Bidding 2D over 1S-2C isn't a problem if looking for game. If partner isn't going to be really upset when looking for slam when you show up with a balanced hand after rebidding 2D, then go for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stefan_O Posted August 21, 2016 Report Share Posted August 21, 2016 If you open at all, the system-bid is to rebid 2♠.It only promises 5, which is what you have --- so why bid anything else that can only put you in (deeper) trouble? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrAce Posted August 21, 2016 Report Share Posted August 21, 2016 2♠ is clear rebid. I would open it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr1303 Posted August 21, 2016 Report Share Posted August 21, 2016 I bid 2S here and don't consider it a problem. 2H is vile. I hate 2nt with an outside low doubleton, so would prefer 3D to 2NT. But 2S is standout for me. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaitlyn S Posted August 21, 2016 Report Share Posted August 21, 2016 2H is vile.I do not see a partnership with K. Rexford in your future :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msjennifer Posted August 22, 2016 Report Share Posted August 22, 2016 I too will open.Rebid is easy 2Spade.This DOES NOT show six spades. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenrexford Posted August 22, 2016 Report Share Posted August 22, 2016 I really don't understand this discussion. People seem willing to do things that don't make much sense to me. No one wants to be one card short in the heart suit. I understand that. However the third suit is less frequently the Trump suit. And if there is a general rule that the suit between the two over one and the original suit is suspect this is an easily handled problem. In rejecting that some people are willing to rebid Spades with only five. In other words the most likely Trump strain is one that you're willing to fudge on. You give no additional explanation of your hand when you do this however. You don't gain the advantage of showing a feature. You don't gain space for partner to raise spades cheaply. Others are willing to bid two no-trump. This Summer's wrong siding many contracts. It also deprives the partnership showing a feature. It takes up valuable space. While it does show a pattern feature namely balanced which is better than the two spade option, the combination of wrong sighting and not showing the feature is a bad thing. The third option of showing Diamonds by bidding 3 diamonds is the worst of all worlds in all respects. The end result in an auction like this is that everyone sees the potential harm done by all 4 calls but then excused as their own as a necessary evil. That necessary evil is one catered to later. However it seems axiomatic that if you were going to have one call be impure then it seems best to make the call that is cheapest impure especially if that call has the benefit of being a bid where you live option. I understand the hesitancy 2 fudge with a major. That said if you realize this principle of making the cheapest call a potential fudge then the call no longer is truly a fudge. In simpler terms if a 2H rebid in the sequence only promises a fragment then life is a lot easier in the sequence. If you assess this situation not from the standpoint of conventional wisdom Brooke from the standpoint of efficiency and a willingness to reconsider conventional wisdom then the problem seems to be solved best by making two hearts suspect. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vampyr Posted August 22, 2016 Report Share Posted August 22, 2016 In simpler terms if a 2H rebid in the sequence only promises a fragment then life is a lot easier in the sequence. A very interesting treatment, but probably not available to the OP By the way, it is obviously more convenient to speak your posts, but please proofread because sometimes your posts contain some impossible-to-interpret gobbledygook. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Badger Posted August 22, 2016 Report Share Posted August 22, 2016 I can understand some people not opening this hand. But it is a solid 11 HCP hand with 2 1/2 QT, 7 losers, an intermediate in the long suit, and all points working together. So I see no problem opening it. The hand is an absolute minimum opener however. What you rebid may be a function of how you show a minimum hand versus a 2/1 bid. Some folks will play that 2 NT and 2 of the opening major both show minimums. Some of those might also require stoppers in the unbid suits for the 2 NT bid. For those requiring stoppers, this would then have to fall into a 2 ♠ rebid. For those not requiring stoppers, a 2 ♠ rebid presumably shows 6 ♠ while 2 NT shows 5-3-3-2. (But opener might still have to rebid 2 of a major with 5 when holding a hand not good enough for a high reverse -- ♠ AQ10xx ♥ xxx ♦ x ♣ KQxx.) As long as I've opened it, I'm rebidding 2 ♠ no matter how I play 2 NT to give responder maximum room to tell his/her story. Agree with everything here. Kaplan and Rubens hand evaluator puts this at a 12.25 count. I prefer 2♠ because if we arrive in 3NT I want my partner playing it on a potential ♣ lead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maartenxq Posted August 22, 2016 Report Share Posted August 22, 2016 Not an opener in 1st or 2nd chair for me, (responder drives to game with 12 counts over these) but I expect to be in the minority. You should include a 2♥ option which I would be tempted by if we opened these hands.2♥indeed. 4-3 fit will not be horrible and maybe even the way to a winning 4 ♥. Downside is of course when partner thinks like us with AJ10. Agree with your initial pass. I hate partners who open hands like this and then bid 2 ♠, lying about strength and distribution. Maarten Baltussen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ggwhiz Posted August 22, 2016 Report Share Posted August 22, 2016 the most likely Trump strain is one that you're willing to fudge on. Keep politics out of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aawk Posted August 22, 2016 Report Share Posted August 22, 2016 To open or not to open will always a debate in bridge. The trend is to open with nearly any 11+ HCP even holding a nt pattern. Play for MP go right ahead and agree with your partner what your rebid with a 5332 pattern and a minimum should be. Play for imps i would pass first, no reason to reveale your hand yet because its not likely to be passed out. If partner opens you can get to game anyway If opponents open you can balance if needed The argument to open this hand so partner knows what to lead is a indication a lesson in what and how to lead is recommended. For example (IMP) you hold Kxxx Jx xxx xxx and opponets bid 1nt-3nt do you lead x from Kxxx in s or lead the J from Jx in h. Leading s is a passive lead and is not likely to gain the needed tricks to set 3nt. Leading h is looking for partners strenght and more likely to set 3nt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
helene_t Posted August 22, 2016 Report Share Posted August 22, 2016 Problem with 3d is that partner can't show his club stopper. So hopefully the system prescribes 2s or 2h for this hand. 2h is obviously better but I would bid 2S if that is our agreement, except possibly in an indy or if it's the last hand of the event. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manastorm Posted August 22, 2016 Report Share Posted August 22, 2016 I bid 2♠ showing a minimum opener. I agree with 1♠ opening. This is better than a bad 12 pointer, which I usually open. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mycroft Posted August 22, 2016 Report Share Posted August 22, 2016 I can't imagine anyone in my area in the A game not opening this one. I can't imagine anyone in my area short of the "really top A" - like 5 people - doing anything but bidding 2NT now. It's a style, but it's Calgary style, that 2NT does not promise extras, and 2♠ promises 6 (and AKQJT doesn't count). It's a style I'm still uncomfortable with, having learned my 2/1 in the wilds of Ontario, where 2NT shows extras. So on a good day, I'd probably bid 2♥ and hope to land on my feet; on a normal day, I'd bid 2♠ and hope the 5-2 plays well; on the days when I actually *play* bridge, I'd bid 2NT and keep my partner happy. And with my regular partner, I put a spade in with the clubs and open 1NT like all right-thinking people should :-). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stefan_O Posted August 22, 2016 Report Share Posted August 22, 2016 ♣...some people are willing to rebid Spades with only five. ....and 2♠ promises 6 (and AKQJT doesn't count). While 1♠-2♣-2♠ might promise a 6-card suit, afaik, 1♠-2♦-2♠ only promises 5, since it is also what you bid with a 5♠+4♣ minimum hand, isnt it? That's why 2♥ (pd expecting 4-card suit) to me seems like a very uncalled for risk to take here. Also, xx in ♣ speaks against 2NT rebid + pd probably has the stronger hand (I hope! ;)), so 3NT plays better from pds hand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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