Kokish

[Vampyr]

Looking for some guidance .

 

My favourite partner and I play Kokish over a 2♣ opening. We bid 20-22- the slow way, mainly since this allows us to play in 3 and show a couple of other hands. Anyway, the problem with this approach arises when a spade contract is reached via Puppet (or any variety of) Stayman.

 

Neither this issue nor the extra hand-types we get to show come up pretty much ever. So is there a clear advantage one way the other? (The other NT range in 2♣ is 25+).

[nullve]

Looking for some guidance .

 

My favourite partner and I play Kokish over a 2NT opening. We bid 20-22- the slow way, mainly since this allows us to play in 3 and show a couple of other hands. Anyway, the problem with this approach arises when a spade contract is reached via Puppet (or any variety of) Stayman.

 

Neither this issue nor the extra hand-types we get to show come up pretty much ever. So is there a clear advantage one way the other? (The other NT range in 2♣ is 25+).

I think Welland-Auken play

 

2♣-?:

 

2♦ = 5+ H or waiting

...2♥ = 20-21 bal. / 5+ H, GF values

......P = 5+ H, very weak (assumes Opener has 20-21 bal.!!)

......(...)

...(...)

2♥ = 5+ S

...2♠ = 20-21 bal.

...(...)

(...),

 

which solves the right-siding problem and enables them to stop in 2M, the latter being an advantage of the "slow = weaker" approach.

[Vampyr]

I think Welland-Auken play

 

2♣-?:

 

2♦ = 5+ H or waiting

...2♥ = 20-21 bal. / 5+ H, GF values

......P = 5+ H, very weak (assumes Opener has 20-21 bal.!!)

......(...)

...(...)

2♥ = 5+ S

...2♠ = 20-21 bal.

...(...)

(...),

 

which solves the right-siding problem and enables them to stop in 2M, the latter being an advantage of the "slow = weaker" approach.

 

That is interesting. Obviously we can also stop in 2M; it doesn't matter which way round for that purpose, but of course these contracts are always wrong-sided. I like the W/A methods.

[iandayre]

I don't follow this, Kokish is played over a strong artificial 2C opening bid, not 2NT.

[Vampyr]

I don't follow this, Kokish is played over a strong artificial 2C opening bid, not 2NT.

 

LOL just a typo. I will fix.

[gordontd]

Looking for some guidance .

 

My favourite partner and I play Kokish over a 2♣ opening. We bid 20-22- the slow way, mainly since this allows us to play in 3 and show a couple of other hands. Anyway, the problem with this approach arises when a spade contract is reached via Puppet (or any variety of) Stayman.

 

Neither this issue nor the extra hand-types we get to show come up pretty much ever. So is there a clear advantage one way the other? (The other NT range in 2♣ is 25+).

I've been told that the reason for playing the weaker range through Kokish is that you can combine it with transfers to allow you to play in 3C/D opposite a weak hand.

[Vampyr]

I've been told that the reason for playing the weaker range through Kokish is that you can combine it with transfers to allow you to play in 3C/D opposite a weak hand.

 

Yes, that is our main reason but the trouble is that it rarely comes up, and one disadvantage is that with the vastly more frequent 20/21 all spade contracts are wrong sided.

[Jinksy]

Neither this issue nor the extra hand-types we get to show come up pretty much ever. So is there a clear advantage one way the other? (The other NT range in 2♣ is 25+).

 

Absolutely. Playing it the unusual way round, you get to call it 'Diet Kokish'.

[Vampyr]

Absolutely. Playing it the unusual way round, you get to call it 'Diet Kokish'.

 

:P Which way is unusual though? When we started playing it this way, we didn't know if anyone else had ever done so, but it seems to be popular now.

[Jinksy]

Hmm... I guess if there's a clear flow you go against it, otherwise just position yourself firmly on the wrong side of epistemology.