smerriman Posted August 16, 2016 Report Share Posted August 16, 2016 Assuming hrothgar doesn't mind me taking over, I enjoyed the first challenge event so much I feel like starting up another one already :) A couple of changes in rules: - It was mentioned the format should be the same for everyone, and I agree. Please vote in the poll (you can vote multiple options for each) - we'll play with whichever options come out with the highest number of votes. - Given the format will be consistent, we can avoid complicated three-way groupings, etc. Everyone will be paired up randomly in the first round. The winners of all first round matches will go through to the second round, plus enough losers who have the smallest margin of loss to make up a power of 2 players. From then on, it will be straight knockout, with players with the largest winning margins in the previous round playing those with the smallest winning margins, rather than randomly allocated. All ties will be broken by highest individual score. Anyone that wants to play, please sign up here (won't impose an official sign up deadline yet.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted August 16, 2016 Report Share Posted August 16, 2016 Thanks for putting this together. If you need players to fill out a N2 bracket, I can help bang the drum. Obviously sign me up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vampyr Posted August 16, 2016 Report Share Posted August 16, 2016 I would also like to play. But is it possible to ask people e play "honestly", ie not game the robots? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gordontd Posted August 16, 2016 Report Share Posted August 16, 2016 I would also like to play. But is it possible to ask people e play "honestly", ie not game the robots?What does this even mean? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vampyr Posted August 16, 2016 Report Share Posted August 16, 2016 What does this even mean? It's things like bidding 1NT or 3NT on wildly unsuitable hands; generally creating auctions where the robot won't hang you. People who are experienced with robots will know how to get to a sensible contract despite having a robot for a partner. Is there a way to see a description of your calls before bidding? Inexperienced people will also not know when the robot is assigning a ludicrous meaning to their bids. Maybe a pairs challenge would be more fun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1eyedjack Posted August 16, 2016 Report Share Posted August 16, 2016 Is there a way to see a description of your calls before bidding?The answer to this is "yes". I don't suggest that the explanation is 100% complete or reliable, but not far off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
broze Posted August 16, 2016 Report Share Posted August 16, 2016 I would be keen for this. I have voted for IMPs and no preference between best hand or not. I think the number of boards should increase throughout the competition. 16 boards is more than enough for the first round matches and to be honest 32 would be fine for the final imo. Playing your opponent is half the fun of the game and I see no reason why there should be any difference with robot bidding. This is a robot tournament after all... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1eyedjack Posted August 16, 2016 Report Share Posted August 16, 2016 I am unlikely to be able to devote the time to take part, so my opinion doesn't count, but for what little it is worth I think that imposing a kind of no-psych rule would be impossible to police on the fringes and the easiest solution would be anything goes, and caveat emptor. It would be a shame if that puts Vampyr off playing, and I would not want that outcome. I think that the capacity for "gaming" the robots is a rather overstated, actually. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diana_eva Posted August 16, 2016 Report Share Posted August 16, 2016 I'll play too. Thanks for organizing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shyams Posted August 16, 2016 Report Share Posted August 16, 2016 I'd like to play too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diana_eva Posted August 16, 2016 Report Share Posted August 16, 2016 It's things like bidding 1NT or 3NT on wildly unsuitable hands; generally creating auctions where the robot won't hang you. People who are experienced with robots will know how to get to a sensible contract despite having a robot for a partner. Is there a way to see a description of your calls before bidding? Inexperienced people will also not know when the robot is assigning a ludicrous meaning to their bids. Maybe a pairs challenge would be more fun. You can see explanations of bids made, and also explanations of your own bids as the robot will understand them. Click any bid to see what it means. Before you make a bid, mouse over it to see what the robot will understand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hrothgar Posted August 16, 2016 Report Share Posted August 16, 2016 I'd enjoy playing... FWIW, given how wildly results were fluctuating across 16 board stanzas, I think that long rounds are a good thing... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenix214 Posted August 16, 2016 Report Share Posted August 16, 2016 I would like to join as well. As for format hardest format is no best hand mp, while the easiest to play is best hand imp. I would prefer the harder one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nullve Posted August 16, 2016 Report Share Posted August 16, 2016 I would like to join as well. As for format hardest format is no best hand mp, while the easiest to play is best hand imp. I would prefer the harder one.Ditto. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zebutin Posted August 16, 2016 Report Share Posted August 16, 2016 I would like to participate in this one too. Personally I don't think mp is that good in challenge matches, as there aren't any "pool" of scores to get decent averages and against 1 score it is somewhat random imho. In imp it might be random too, but there is different kind of randomnes in getting 1,2,10,etc imp against 0% and 100%. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barmar Posted August 16, 2016 Report Share Posted August 16, 2016 I voted for non-best-hand because it removes one of the ways to take advantage of the special robot format. Although this technique is available equally to all, so it's not necessarily unfair, it sounds like there are some people who don't have much experience playing robot bridge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manudude03 Posted August 16, 2016 Report Share Posted August 16, 2016 I think 64 board matches were a bit long. It was often difficult to find times for people to meet up to get the matches done quickly. Note that once you send a challenge, you can't play your boards until the other person accepts and vice versa. I'm used to playing Best Hand, but don't really mind playing non-best hand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vampyr Posted August 16, 2016 Report Share Posted August 16, 2016 I voted for non-best-hand because it removes one of the ways to take advantage of the special robot format. Although this technique is available equally to all, so it's not necessarily unfair, it sounds like there are some people who don't have much experience playing robot bridge. Right; I don't. Changing my vote to non-best hand. What are the robots' defensive methods? Is there a robot CC? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vampyr Posted August 16, 2016 Report Share Posted August 16, 2016 You can see explanations of bids made, and also explanations of your own bids as the robot will understand them. Click any bid to see what it means. Before you make a bid, mouse over it to see what the robot will understand. Is it possible to do this on a mini iPad? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1eyedjack Posted August 16, 2016 Report Share Posted August 16, 2016 What are the robots' defensive methods? Is there a robot CC?http://www.bridgebase.com/doc/gib_system_notes.php Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diana_eva Posted August 16, 2016 Report Share Posted August 16, 2016 Is it possible to do this on a mini iPad? Yes. Tap a bid to see what it means. Before you make a bid, hold your finger on the bid to see explanation. If it's not what you want swipe off somewhere outside the bidding box and try another one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1eyedjack Posted August 16, 2016 Report Share Posted August 16, 2016 Is it possible to do this on a mini iPad?Yes the mobile skins for iOS and Android behave very similarly (bugs permitting). I often play against robots on a Samsung S5 (Android) mobile phone and it picks up the explanations OK. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted August 16, 2016 Report Share Posted August 16, 2016 Agree with everything that's been said. 1. Non best hand takes away some of the proven bot strategies like weird 1N and 2N openings. 2. 16 boards is too few; 64 is too many. Suggest 2 x 16 to evaluate how you're doing at halftime. 3. MPs really plays like BAM here. I would be OK with it but IMPs provides more variation and is a truer test I think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1eyedjack Posted August 16, 2016 Report Share Posted August 16, 2016 Vampyr, I suggest that you just have a trial go at playing some robots for a day or so, and see how you get on with them. There are some free alternatives for doing this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barmar Posted August 16, 2016 Report Share Posted August 16, 2016 I think 64 board matches were a bit long. It was often difficult to find times for people to meet up to get the matches done quickly.You don't have to play them all at once. And you don't have to "meet up", you can each play them at a time that's convenient to you. Yeah, It's annoying that you can't start until your opponent accepts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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