What's the worst hand?

[kenrexford]

First, I won't give you your hand.

 

Partner opens 1♣-P-1♦-(1♥)-6♦.

 

What's the worst hand you can imagine for a reasonable 6♦ call?

 

If you have the diamond Ace and Jack, and the heart Ace and King, what is the worst hand he can have?

 

 

 

[1eyedjack]

I find it hard to imagine any hand that makes 6D a reasonable call.

 

If 6D has play then 7D should be in your crosshairs, but leaping to 6D kills any meaningful dialog to investigate it.

 

If 6D is intended as a pre-empt then it seems precipitous given the slow start.

[kenrexford]

I find it hard to imagine any hand that makes 6D a reasonable call.

 

If 6D has play then 7D should be in your crosshairs, but leaping to 6D kills any meaningful dialog to investigate it.

 

If 6D is intended as a pre-empt then it seems precipitous given the slow start.

 

 

Any call that gives a complete description of your hand to partner in one leaping bid kills any ability to have a lengthy discussion about it, but a discussion is not needed. Sort of like trying to figure out your 2015 gross income by reviewing the hourly rate, the hours work, the overtime rate, the overtime hours, bonuses, and the like. Long discussion. But, if you hand me your 1040, that ends the discussion quickly, but efficiently.

 

My point is that 6♦ can only logically mean roughly one thing, generally, with variations on a central theme possible. I would imagine that all would agree on basic parameters:

 

1. Solid (A-K-Q) club trick source of at least 6 cards

 

2. Void in a major

 

3. Ace in the other major

 

4. Excellent diamond support

 

I would also imagine that Opener would have to have a hand where making this picture bid is critical because other options do not allow asking effective questions. Some options, for example, might risk taking too long (where a heart blast might mess things up). Some options might not answer the right question (like RKCB without mentioning the void). Some options might not be available (like the partnership lacks Exclusion). Some auctions might be predictably doomed to confusion and no clear agreements (as ALL auctions involving minor slam tries end up being).

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Phil]

Reconsidering

[manudude03]

I suppose a hand like Ax v KQxxx AKxxxx might bid that hoping partner just has something fitting and not wanting to bid exclusion for fear of opps finding a cheap sacrifice.

[Cyberyeti]

void, void, KQxxx, KJxxxxxx or similar, he guesses you have one of the key aces, and that you'll know what to do with 2, and has no sensible means of investigation.

[mike777]

Its difficult to come up with an opening hand that could not bid rkc/exclusion for whatever reasons and the opp are bidding so little!

[shyams]

I'd say a hand like ♠A ♥- ♦KQJxx ♣KQJT9xx OR ♠- ♥A ♦KQJxx ♣KQJT9xx

 

If North has top controls in both Minors, North is expected to raise to a grand slam. Otherwise, we pass and pray/play...?

[mike777]

sorry but some of these examples would bid exclusion or rkc or gsf.

[1eyedjack]

Maybe it should be a bit like a 5M opener: 6D shows 12 playing tricks with a trump loser (Ace or King).

[ggwhiz]

I can think of lots of criminally insane hands but you specified "reasonable".

 

Ax in either major with a void in the other, 5 small(ish) diamonds and AKxxxx of clubs

[Kaitlyn S]

sorry but some of these examples would bid exclusion or rkc or gsf.

I wouldn't think your average pickup partner plays exclusion.

[Kaitlyn S]

It wouldn't be unbelievable to do it on ---, xxx, AKQx, AKQJxx if your opponent "knows" you are expecting a heart lead. Given that you might not make 5 on a heart lead, is this such a bad shot?

 

Now given that responder can rule this hand out because he has the worthless H-AK and the useful DA, I'm guessing that opener is missing 2 minor suit cards and I wouldn't bid 7. If the HA is useful (say: --, x, KQxxx, AKxxxxx), I'll pay off.

[manudude03]

Just because you can bid exclusion, it doesn't mean it's tactically right to do so. I think it's quite important to note that we are outranked here, so if you bid say 4H for exclusion, how happy would you expect to be if it is doubled and they bid 6H over 6D or 7H over 7D? At least if you bid 6D right off you force LHO to guess whether or not to bid 6H, and in a punt-ish auction, they will likely just hope you have misguessed.

[kenrexford]

My actual hand was Ax-0-Kxxxx-AKQxxx. Partner had a tough problem with the Ace-King in hearts, diamond AJxx, and 3 clubs. At IMP, 7D seems possible. At MP, 6NT seems possible. Pass is probably right, though.

[mike777]

I wouldn't think your average pickup partner plays exclusion.

 

 

 

perhaps not but the rules of the game tell us that our partner and the opp are true experts/world class unless we are told otherwise. We do not assume partner is a novice or nonexpert in bidding challenge unless we are told that.

 

 

I do agree these bidding problems come out differently if we assume pard is an average ACBL nonexpert level player or worse.

[mike777]

My actual hand was Ax-0-Kxxxx-AKQxxx. Partner had a tough problem with the Ace-King in hearts, diamond AJxx, and 3 clubs. At IMP, 7D seems possible. At MP, 6NT seems possible. Pass is probably right, though.

 

 

As we guessed exclusion was an option.

 

even old blacky would have been an option for nonexperts/novices :).

[Kaitlyn S]

perhaps not but the rules of the game tell us that our partner and the opp are true experts/world class unless we are told otherwise. We do not assume partner is a novice or nonexpert in bidding challenge unless we are told that.

 

 

I do agree these bidding problems come out differently if we assume pard is an average ACBL nonexpert level player or worse.

I am new here so maybe you can tell me what is wrong with the following thinking:

 

I noticed an Expert Bridge forum and a General Bridge discussion. It makes sense to me that a bidding problem that assumes an expert game would be in the Expert Bridge forum, while a bidding problem that occurred here on BBO where you waltzed into a table at the Main Bridge Club would be in the General Bridge Discussion.

 

Taking the other side of that argument implies a rather dark truth in my mind - that if the General Discussion is for experts (real experts, not the "expert" I'm being told I should call myself in another thread), that somewhere in the high nineties percent of players, including me, have no business posting here. I can't believe that's what is intended.

 

I'm not trying to be a pain here - I'm just stating what makes sense to a site newcomer and asking someone to tell me what is wrong with my thinking.

[manudude03]

I am new here so maybe you can tell me what is wrong with the following thinking:

 

I noticed an Expert Bridge forum and a General Bridge discussion. It makes sense to me that a bidding problem that assumes an expert game would be in the Expert Bridge forum, while a bidding problem that occurred here on BBO where you waltzed into a table at the Main Bridge Club would be in the General Bridge Discussion.

 

Taking the other side of that argument implies a rather dark truth in my mind - that if the General Discussion is for experts (real experts, not the "expert" I'm being told I should call myself in another thread), that somewhere in the high nineties percent of players, including me, have no business posting here. I can't believe that's what is intended.

 

I'm not trying to be a pain here - I'm just stating what makes sense to a site newcomer and asking someone to tell me what is wrong with my thinking.

 

It's not so much as only experts can post, but you just generally need to assume the opps are not going to do anything stupid unless it is specifically stated they are weak players.

[msjennifer]

The question asker must be playing opposite a partner who plays "Papa Mamma" bridge and who must have never even heard of any conventions or gadgets.I expect something like A,x,KQxxx,AKQxxx and would have bid 7D in a flash to make the cold contract or to teach him a lesson or two,if he produces a different hand with no chances.Of course,with such a hand 2C opening is obvious but perhaps not "Papa Momma" style.As regards the worst hand ,it could be S-Void,H-x,D-xxxxxx,C-AKQxxx.

[Cyberyeti]

My actual hand was Ax-0-Kxxxx-AKQxxx. Partner had a tough problem with the Ace-King in hearts, diamond AJxx, and 3 clubs. At IMP, 7D seems possible. At MP, 6NT seems possible. Pass is probably right, though.

 

I'd almost certainly GSF that

[The_Badger]

My actual hand was Ax-0-Kxxxx-AKQxxx. Partner had a tough problem with the Ace-King in hearts, diamond AJxx, and 3 clubs. At IMP, 7D seems possible. At MP, 6NT seems possible. Pass is probably right, though.

 

A direct 5NT Josephine comes into the equation too instead of wham-bam 6♦, I feel. [ That's if people actually use Josephine these days :) ]

 

Even with the 1♥ overcall, partner should be able to interpret 5NT surely.

[Manastorm]

I go with ♣AKQxxx/x, ♦HHxx/x, void in hearts and ♠ A, singleton or void. One void is pretty clear, because otherwise she would have no reason to blast. Good clubs are needed for tricks. ♦HH to avoid 2 trump losers. Spades are harder, because 5nt would indicate no losers outside trumps, therefore a spade loser is a likely possibility. Would she do this with a singelton spade and a trump loser. It is very risky and probably unnecessary. Another possibility is that RKCB could take us overboard, so maybe 2 aces response would cause trouble, but that doesn't seem to make any sense. At least RKCB problem can be excluded.

[Kaitlyn S]

The question asker must be playing opposite a partner who plays "Papa Mamma" bridge and who must have never even heard of any conventions or gadgets.I expect something like A,x,KQxxx,AKQxxx and would have bid 7D in a flash to make the cold contract or to teach him a lesson or two,if he produces a different hand with no chances.Of course,with such a hand 2C opening is obvious but perhaps not "Papa Momma" style.As regards the worst hand ,it could be S-Void,H-x,D-xxxxxx,C-AKQxxx.

I'm guessing not. For that would say that the OP posted this to show that partner is a weak player, and although I've seen players propose problems to show that his/her spouse is brain dead, it doesn't make it any less despicable. I'd like to think that nobody posts here to show that they are despicable. If I had to guess, I would say that OP was playing with a partner he respects and legitimately felt partner's pain in the auction, and was curious what others thought of the predicament.

[kenrexford]

As I mentioned, this is a problem.

 

6NT opposite the hand I actually held is a mess if the diamonds dont come in, but 6D is safe (pitch spade loser or losers on hearts) barring a first round club ruff.

 

7D has the same issue in diamonds.

 

I think 2047 is possible, as well, which is why I asked. Ax-0-Kxxx-AKQxxxx?

 

Or, what about Ax-0-KQxxx-AKxxxx? 6D good, 7D/6N suck.