I am a rude player!

[MrAce]

I tell myself not to play any games with people that I do not know, but Diana calls me again and after long time I try to give another shot in BBF individual! Wtg Timo!

 

Incident 1- Against a suit contract you lead K from AKxxx. playing udca, dummy shows Qxxx and pd plays 6 from 864. It's ok. First board.

 

Incident 2 - Pd holds

 

♠Q

♥AKQ85

♦AQT94

♣A9

 

pass pass comes to her, she opens 1♥, and pd splinters 4♦. With this hand in a split second she bids 6♥ !!!! Pd tables

 

Axxx

xxxx

void

Kxxxx

 

and 7 is cold. But no big deal for me. I am not really complaining about these, it happens to all of us.

 

Incident 3- Pd opens in 3rd seat with 1♥

 

K85

QJT62

KT3

AT

 

and he passes to my 1♠ response because I am coming from pass. This hand is more powerful than only 13 hcp. But this is just a hand evaluation so no big deal again.

 

 

Incident 4 - They open 1 NT and W/R I preempt 3♣ with AQ xxxx x QJT98x . LHO bids 3♠ and NT opener bids 4♠. Now pd comes in! xx Axxx Axxxx xx he bids 5♣! With doubleton club and 2 Aces!! Again, no big deal. One can argue I should have longer clubs, but if I waited this hand and had I passed 1 NT they would play ♠ partscore like everyone else. As I said no big deal. I am not expecting a high level bridge in this event.

 

 

NOW THE GOOD STUFF STARTS! BUCKLE UP!!

 

Disaster #1 Pd holds

 

Jxx

KQx

AJxxxx

T

 

vs dummy

 

xx

A

Txx

AQJ9xxx

 

W overcalled 2♥ so East leads a ♥. Life master pd wins this in dummy and plays a small ♣ towards T !!!!!! East after some tank, decides to qwack this!! Now pd plays a small ♦ towards T. East wins it and plays 2nd ♥! Pd wins this in hand and guess what he does?

 

HE @#$ing plays another small ♦ towards T !!! At the point when he won 2nd ♥ he was cold for 9 tricks! (2-2 ♦) He is trying to create an entry to use unestablished clubs!! Now defence plays 3rd ♥!!! Guess what pd plays again instead of cashing his good diamonds? He plays 3rd small ♦ and finally he gets to dummy to score his @#$ing ♣ A!!!

 

At this point I started to get little wired up. But here we go another table...

 

Disaster #2 - Another lifemaster pd, holds

 

J8xx

Kx

Axxx

AJx

 

As her pd I open 1♥ and her RHO overcalls 2♦ (all vulnerable). Guess what does she bid? She bids 2 NT!! She has 4 card ♠ she needs to double. She has awful ♦ holding and probably wrong siding the NT. And most importantly, she has a GF hand not an invitation. So I pass with 11 hcp and table

 

Kxx

AQ8xx

x

Q8xx

 

They lead ♦ and she ducks. They continue ♦, she ducks again. They play 3rd ♦ she ducks again!! But while she is ducking guess what does she discard from dummy? Hearts!!! And the she saw overcaller had 6 ♦. When she takes 4th round ♦, cashes 3 ♥ and plays ♣ towards AJx and ♦ overcaller shows out. Guess what did she do? She takes this finesse knowing that she will not have any trick after that! -4 for -400!

 

As a rude player, I did not open my mouth. Not a single word. Until she made the comment " I hate this game!!" After all of this, her blaming the game I love was too much for me. I lost it. I said "Why do you hate this game? You should have doubled 2D, you should have forced to game with 13 and you played like a beginner" I admit this was rude, although one can debate whether I was rude to the lady or to beginners, it's another story.

 

But isn't it ridiculous, to play a 6-3 a 9 card suit starting from the bottom 3 ***** times? Isn't this rude?

Or is it something too sophisticated that I expect from a player to know the most common auction, pd opens they overcall and your 2 NT is what? Dbl is what? Especially both from the bottom player and this lady has ***** loads of conventions listed in their card and yo ucan tell they been around for a while? I mean WTF??

[nige1]

I tell myself not to play any games with people that I do not know, but Diana calls me again and after long time I try to give another shot in BBF individual! Wtg Timo!

Incident 1- Against a suit contract you lead K from AKxxx. playing udca, dummy shows Qxxx and pd plays 6 from 864. It's ok. First board.

Hard to bear Mr Ace... But I have sympathy for your partners. I sometimes forget signalling methods. Perhaps partner did so here.

Incident 2 - Pd holds

♠Q

♥AKQ85

♦AQT94

♣A9

pass pass comes to her, she opens 1♥, and pd splinters 4♦. With this hand in a split second she bids 6♥ !!!! Pd tables

Axxx

xxxx

void

Kxxxx

and 7 is cold. But no big deal for me. I am not really complaining about these, it happens to all of us.

Perhaps the partner of Mr Ace's was aware of his bidding style? At least he didn't bid 7NT. He might have heeded Robson's advice to avoid grand-slams, especially at pairs, 7♥ is a fair contract -- but hardly cold?

Incident 3- Pd opens in 3rd seat with 1♥

K85

QJT62

KT3

AT

and he passes to my 1♠ response because I am coming from pass. This hand is more powerful than only 13 hcp. But this is just a hand evaluation so no big deal again.

I confess I'd pass at pairs. Arguably, pass is reasonable.

Incident 4 - They open 1 NT and W/R I preempt 3♣ with AQ xxxx x QJT98x . LHO bids 3♠ and NT opener bids 4♠. Now pd comes in! xx Axxx Axxxx xx he bids 5♣! With doubleton club and 2 Aces!! Again, no big deal. One can argue I should have longer clubs, but if I waited this hand and had I passed 1 NT they would play ♠ partscore like everyone else. As I said no big deal. I am not expecting a high level bridge in this event.

A vote of confidence in Mr Ace's dummy-play :)

NOW THE GOOD STUFF STARTS! BUCKLE UP!!

Disaster #1 Pd holds

Jxx

KQx

AJxxxx

T

vs dummy

xx

A

Txx

AQJ9xxx

W overcalled 2♥ so East leads a ♥. Life master pd wins this in dummy and plays a small ♣ towards T !!!!!! East after some tank, decides to qwack this!! Now pd plays a small ♦ towards T. East wins it and plays 2nd ♥! Pd wins this in hand and guess what he does? HE @#$ing plays another small ♦ towards T !!! At the point when he won 2nd ♥ he was cold for 9 tricks! (2-2 ♦) He is trying to create an entry to use unestablished clubs!! Now defence plays 3rd ♥!!! Guess what pd plays again instead of cashing his good diamonds? He plays 3rd small ♦ and finally he gets to dummy to score his @#$ing ♣ A!!!

At this point I started to get little wired up. But here we go another table...

Presumably, the contract was 3N but declarer forgot.

Disaster #2 - Another lifemaster pd, holds

J8xx

Kx

Axxx

AJx

As her pd I open 1♥ and her RHO overcalls 2♦ (all vulnerable). Guess what does she bid? She bids 2 NT!! She has 4 card ♠ she needs to double. She has awful ♦ holding and probably wrong siding the NT. And most importantly, she has a GF hand not an invitation. So I pass with 11 hcp and table

Kxx

AQ8xx

x

Q8xx

They lead ♦ and she ducks. They continue ♦, she ducks again. They play 3rd ♦ she ducks again!! But while she is ducking guess what does she discard from dummy? Hearts!!! And the she saw overcaller had 6 ♦. When she takes 4th round ♦, cashes 3 ♥ and plays ♣ towards AJx and ♦ overcaller shows out. Guess what did she do? She takes this finesse knowing that she will not have any trick after that! -4 for -400!

As a rude player, I did not open my mouth. Not a single word. Until she made the comment " I hate this game!!" After all of this, her blaming the game I love was too much for me. I lost it. I said "Why do you hate this game? You should have doubled 2D, you should have forced to game with 13 and you played like a beginner" I admit this was rude, although one can debate whether I was rude to the lady or to beginners, it's another story. But isn't it ridiculous, to play a 6-3 a 9 card suit starting from the bottom 3 ***** times? Isn't this rude? Or is it something too sophisticated that I expect from a player to know the most common auction, pd opens they overcall and your 2 NT is what? Dbl is what? Especially both from the bottom player and this lady has ***** loads of conventions listed in their card and you can tell they been around for a while? I mean WTF??

Perhaps partner imagined 2N to be forcing and Mr Ace's pass disconcerted her :(

[diana_eva]

Indies are supposed to be fun and meeting people. I saw less people play these lately.

 

I'll think of a more pleasant format if the randomness is too much to bear for most forumers.

 

That said, your comment was indeed rude.

[sfi]

Individuals can be a bit silly at the best of times, even face-to-face. In the most recent one I played, partner opened 2C, explained by 2D as an artificial waiting bid, and then passed! +150 in the 4-2 fit turned out not to be our best score.

 

The point is taking them too seriously is hazardous to your health. Learn to enjoy the randomness, and remind yourself that they play against you twice as often as with you.

[MrAce]

Indies are supposed to be fun and meeting people. I saw less people play these lately.

 

I'll think of a more pleasant format if the randomness is too much to bear for most forumers.

 

That said, your comment was indeed rude.

 

Ok, I apologize to beginners.

[billw55]

Disaster #2 - Another lifemaster pd, holds

 

J8xx

Kx

Axxx

AJx

 

As her pd I open 1♥ and her RHO overcalls 2♦ (all vulnerable). Guess what does she bid? She bids 2 NT!! She has 4 card ♠ she needs to double. She has awful ♦ holding and probably wrong siding the NT. And most importantly, she has a GF hand not an invitation. So I pass with 11 hcp and table

 

Kxx

AQ8xx

x

Q8xx

Of course double is correct. As for forcing to game, if your style is known to include opening such a raggedy 11 count, then it is not obvious to me that a routine 13 should force to game in response. Am I supposed to be impressed by those 8s that you so carefully specified? Of course in an indy your style is probably not known, and forcing to game is correct. But what game contract did you want to be in with these two hands? I suppose 4♥ is playable but I wouldn't be too optimistic.

 

As a side note, I often play in the MBC with randoms, and find that about 2/3 of "advanced" players know what a negative double is. Maybe less. In such a situation, you really should keep your expectations to a bare minimum.

[MrAce]

Of course double is correct. As for forcing to game, if your style is known to include opening such a raggedy 11 count, then it is not obvious to me that a routine 13 should force to game in response. Am I supposed to be impressed by those 8s that you so carefully specified? Of course in an indy your style is probably not known, and forcing to game is correct. But what game contract did you want to be in with these two hands? I suppose 4♥ is playable but I wouldn't be too optimistic.

 

As a side note, I often play in the MBC with randoms, and find that about 2/3 of "advanced" players know what a negative double is. Maybe less. In such a situation, you really should keep your expectations to a bare minimum.

 

Where in my post did you have the idea that I wanted to be in game? Have you not been reading my posts in BBF? I am one of the very few guys who refuses to criticize due to the result. Just because it turned out that cards did not lay friendly does not make me to say the right thing.

 

FYI, there is not 1 single player who did not open this hand 1♥. And I am one of the most conservative bidders at MP.

[MrAce]

Also FYI, Bill.

 

http://bridgewinners.com/article/view/bidding-problem-13179/

[billw55]

Where in my post did you have the idea that I wanted to be in game? Have you not been reading my posts in BBF? I am one of the very few guys who refuses to criticize due to the result. Just because it turned out that cards did not lay friendly does not make me to say the right thing.

 

FYI, there is not 1 single player who did not open this hand 1♥. And I am one of the most conservative bidders at MP.

I did say that forcing to game was correct.

 

Perhaps I must be a very conservative opening bidder. But, in a BBO indy, 1♥ was opened at every table? That amazes me.

 

 

[MrAce]

 

Perhaps I must be a very conservative opening bidder. But, in a BBO indy, 1♥ was opened at every table? That amazes me.

 

 

 

Yup http://www.bridgebase.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif. You can check from hand records if you do not take my word for it.

 

If you read the comments in BW, they say they would open even with 5332 with the spots. And after your complaint about the 8s I put here (actual hand had them) I only used x in BW.

 

 

 

 

[billw55]

Yup http://www.bridgebase.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif. You can check from hand records if you do not take my word for it.

 

If you read the comments in BW, they say they would open even with 5332 with the spots. And after your complaint about the 8s I put here (actual hand had them) I only used x in BW.

Well good, I learned something new today. You even specified 2/1, which encourages slightly sounder openings.

 

The tourney thing is what really surprises me. I sometimes get flak from random partners in the MBC for opening hands better than this one. And certainly when I look at scores I see players passing better hands. On this particular hand I would definitely expect more passes than openings (in the MBC). I guess the players in an indy must not be a representative sampling. And that I need to play more real bridge http://www.bridgebase.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/default/sad.gif

 

 

[barmar]

This kind of stuff happens in all indies.

 

I have a friend who regularly plays in the ACBL indies. I don't have the temperament for them myself, but I occasionally kibitz him, and his partners pull this kind of stuff on him all the time.

 

I ask him why he puts up with it. He wants to play bridge, and he doesn't like playing with the robots, so when his regular partner (in bridge and life) isn't available he plays indies. And it goes both ways -- often the opponents pull the boneheaded plays, and he gets gifts. And since there are twice as many opponents as partners, the odds are in your favor. :)

 

I suspect MrAce expects the standard of play to be higher in the BBF indy. I'm not sure why.

[MrAce]

This kind of stuff happens in all indies.

........

I suspect MrAce expects the standard of play to be higher in the BBF indy. I'm not sure why.

 

I am not expecting a higher standard really.

 

But I expect at least, something better than overcalling 2♣ with

 

Ax

AKQx

Q

AQT832

 

and never bidding ever again, letting them play 2♥ (This is the same guy who played 6-3 suit headed by Ace, from the bottom 3 times!) This same guy ends up being 3rd or 4th with % 55.

 

So, I totally disagree with the comment that odds favour me at all. Odds favour the players WHO are bidding/playing/defending and thinking like this guy. I have no chance at all unless I decide to play and bid with total disrespect to my partners, and believe me I know how to get good scores, but I refuse to do that. IMHO, that is what real rudeness would be by me.

 

EDIT: And if you noticed, I did not yell to ---->tournament chat, as some people did in the past and still do, my frustration. I just came and ranted in the forums, to the people I write and read everyday for last 7 years and admitted my rude behavior, and explained the reasons that put me into this grumpy mood. That's all.

[The_Badger]

Hi Timo (MrAce)

 

I'm with you all the way on this one. Playing with random partners, especially those that you do not know, compromises your own ability, I feel. To play with or against weaker opposition can be frustrating at the best; mind-numbingly catastrophic at the worst.

 

It's surprising how many players who have some rating on BBO - not just their own personal assumption - and you can feel them playing the cards and bidding well below their supposed ability. It might be an age thing, but that could be construed as ageist, as there are plenty too who are not seniors.

 

When I started playing in the UK in about 1976 (age 14), the one thing I was disillusioned with was how bridge status was achieved.

 

With chess you have an ELO rating that changes every year. With bridge, you just collect points upon points for playing tournaments, so with enough time and money anyone with moderate ability can technically become a Life Master. You don't actually need to read a bridge book, just play and bid a bit better than the (usually) average opposition.

 

I'm in favour of Bibo-Zahlen rating. But I can't see it taking over from Master Points in the foreseeable future.

[helene_t]

Yesterday I showed up at the local club looking for a partner. Someone I'd never seen before also showed up single so we spent one minute discussing system and off we go.

 

On one board he opened 1NT:

1NT-2♥

2♠-3♥

pass!

 

Having four good hearts there was no way passing could be right even if he thought 3♥ was invitational. I suppose he either thought I had forgot about transfers, or he just adhered to the "if in doubt, pass" maxim without thinking any deeper.

 

At some point I started realizing that any attempt at normal bidding an play would earn us 0% on most boards so I started making total crap preempt which earned us three tops and one bottom. So we ended up with 45%.

 

But most importantly, we were both in good mood afterwards. It had overall been a fun evening, he might have learned one or two bidding principles, in any case whatever annoyed feelings I had underway I think I managed to contain and also forgot myself quickly.

 

Afterwards I got a bit drunk in the pub and started ranting about why you shouldn't teach transfers to beginners.

 

Maybe BBO is not a good environment for that kind of bridge. If the bridge is hopeless, there is little left on BBO to make up for it.

[helene_t]

I am not expecting a higher standard really.

 

But I expect at least, something better than overcalling 2♣ with

 

Ax

AKQx

Q

AQT832

 

and never bidding ever again, letting them play 2♥

If double is t/o and 2NT is t/o and opp can be trusted to have some value so 3NT probably doesn't make, then beating 2♥ undoubled may be our only chance of a plus, no?

[MrAce]

If double is t/o and 2NT is t/o and opp can be trusted to have some value so 3NT probably doesn't make, then beating 2♥ undoubled may be our only chance of a plus, no?

 

They found a ♥ fit. Which means pd is short in hearts. Please construct me a hand for pd, short in hearts and try to convince me that we can make nothing to go plus and should leave to 2♥. I mean you can construct hands where pd has stiff ♣ and stiff ♥ if you wanna be brutal to me., you will still have hard time to convince yourself, let alone me.

[helene_t]

I am not trying to convince anyone that pass is the best call. Just saying that it is sorta understandable. IMO the 2♣ overcall itself was worse since there is an obviously better alternative (dbl).

 

Anyway, if this was near the top of the list of stupidities your partners made in that tourney then it sounds like the level of play in that tourney was above average.

[MrAce]

Anyway, if this was near the top of the list of stupidities your partners made in that tourney then it sounds like the level of play in that tourney was above average.

 

 

Actually I did not even mention this one in my original rant. http://www.bridgebase.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif

[kuhchung]

come on MrAce, it's not like she blamed you or anything. we were all beginners at some point, and some of us will be beginners forever.

[MrAce]

come on MrAce, it's not like she blamed you or anything. we were all beginners at some point, and some of us will be beginners forever.

 

I know.....You are right.

 

My frustration had legit reasons. But it still is not anywhere close to be a good excuse for me to tell someone that she played like a beginner.