MrAce Posted July 23, 2016 Report Share Posted July 23, 2016 [hv=pc=n&s=saq865hak3d75c743&d=w&v=0&b=8&a=pp1c1sp3cd]133|200[/hv] IMP pairs, opponents play 2/13♣ =7-9 4 card fit. Q1 = What do you bid?Q2 =If you pass, pd bids 3♠, what do you bid now? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wanoff Posted July 23, 2016 Report Share Posted July 23, 2016 1. 3♥ game try2. pass, 3♠ may make Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrAce Posted July 23, 2016 Author Report Share Posted July 23, 2016 1. 3♥ game try2. pass, 3♠ may make What do you ask your pd with game try? What should he evaluate when accepting or denying? TxxxQxxAxxxxx is this good to accept? KJxxQxxKxxxxx or is this bad enough to reject? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
masse24 Posted July 23, 2016 Report Share Posted July 23, 2016 Q1. PassQ2. Pass Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wanoff Posted July 23, 2016 Report Share Posted July 23, 2016 Was 'Pass' a non-specific game try ?Over 3♥ I'd say the mixed raiser should evaluate on min/max, Spade tops, Heart fit, ♦A, ♦K less so and club shortage. Maybe 3♥ was an overbid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrAce Posted July 23, 2016 Author Report Share Posted July 23, 2016 Was 'Pass' a non-specific game try ?Over 3♥ I'd say the mixed raiser should evaluate on min/max, Spade tops, Heart fit, ♦A, ♦K less so and club shortage. Maybe 3♥ was an overbid. Pass is what you agreed it to be. Some play it the weakest bid. Some play 3♠ by overcaller to be the weakest bid (I am one of them, because pass creates space) So yes, I play pass as non-specific game try. 3♥ when 3♦ or pass was available, should be something about hearts I guess. I brought this up because I believe this is something that pairs may need to discuss among themselves. For example, when we pass, pd now can bid 3 red, or redouble to show,,,what? Club shortness maybe? Idk tbh! JxxxQxxKxxxxx I think this is too strong for preemptive 3 ♠ and not good enough for a cue. Because they opened 1♣ does not really mean they have values in that suit. 3♥, an overbid or not, does not really seem to help my pd what to evaluate on this hand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fluffy Posted July 23, 2016 Report Share Posted July 23, 2016 We have 20-22 combined and both balanced, I cannot paly 2♠ right?. I would stop in 3♠ ASAP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrAce Posted July 23, 2016 Author Report Share Posted July 23, 2016 We have 20-22 combined and both balanced, I cannot paly 2♠ right?. I would stop in 3♠ ASAP. Idk, do mix raises promise a balanced hand? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fluffy Posted July 23, 2016 Report Share Posted July 23, 2016 Idk, do mix raises promise a balanced hand? Good question, I always assumed they showed a hand equal to 7-9 balanced. So hands with a singleton would be around 5-7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrAce Posted July 23, 2016 Author Report Share Posted July 23, 2016 Good question, I always assumed they showed a hand equal to 7-9 balanced. So hands with a singleton would be around 5-7 Yeah, that is also what I think. I mean any hand whether balanced or unbalanced which is too strong for preemptive 3M and not good enough for cue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyberyeti Posted July 23, 2016 Report Share Posted July 23, 2016 Pass is what you agreed it to be. Some play it the weakest bid. Some play 3♠ by overcaller to be the weakest bid (I am one of them, because pass creates space) So yes, I play pass as non-specific game try. 3♥ when 3♦ or pass was available, should be something about hearts I guess. I brought this up because I believe this is something that pairs may need to discuss among themselves. For example, when we pass, pd now can bid 3 red, or redouble to show,,,what? Club shortness maybe? Idk tbh! JxxxQxxKxxxxx I think this is too strong for preemptive 3 ♠ and not good enough for a cue. Because they opened 1♣ does not really mean they have values in that suit. 3♥, an overbid or not, does not really seem to help my pd what to evaluate on this hand. Can you not bid 3♦ as a response to 1♠ with this ? or is this some other form of raise Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrAce Posted July 23, 2016 Author Report Share Posted July 23, 2016 Can you not bid 3♦ as a response to 1♠ with this ? or is this some other form of raise I was playing with GIB, Cyber, and I do not know what GIB plays it. Probably natural strong hand with diamonds. With my regular partners, I play 3!D as fit (4+) + natural but stronger than this hand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmnka447 Posted July 23, 2016 Report Share Posted July 23, 2016 I have a flat, 7 loser hand opposite a 7-9 4 card raise. I'm passing throughout because I can't visualize a hand where responder's hand eliminates enough losers to make game a good bet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nige1 Posted July 23, 2016 Report Share Posted July 23, 2016 [hv=pc=n&s=saq865hak3d75c743&d=w&v=0&b=8&a=pp1c1sp3cd]133|200|IMP pairs, opponents play 2/13♣ =7-9 4 card fit.Q1 = What do you bid?Q2 =If you pass, pd bids 3♠, what do you bid now?[/hv] After 3♣ (Double), I rank3♠ = Happy to play 3♠ opposite 4♠ s and 7-9 HCP.Pass = Slightly weaker than a direct 3♠ (Some players reverse the meanings of these 2 calls).3♥ = Trial (over-)bid.4♠ = Brave, but pass is a bet that you make exactly nine tricks.After parter bids 3♠, I rank.Pass = Should make.4♠ = See above. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike777 Posted July 23, 2016 Report Share Posted July 23, 2016 3s easy not fully stated but I assume 7-9 total support points...not just hcp. I dont really care about pards total hcp but how she values her entire hand. If she values it roughly in the range of 7-9 total support points ok easy 3s. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Badger Posted July 24, 2016 Report Share Posted July 24, 2016 hi Timo (MrAce) I'm a firm believer that you make trial bids (3♥) in suits that you need help, not headed by the AK. Opener could well have 0445 shape. With 1444 I'd be opening 1♦. So personally I'd bid 3♠ as quickly as possible. The hand comes out at a tad over 14 on Kaplan/Rubens, but with 5332 and a fair chance of a 4-0 ♠ break, I'll be content to make 3♠. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrAce Posted July 24, 2016 Author Report Share Posted July 24, 2016 I passed 3♣ DBL and when pd bid 3♠ I passed again. Pd held. JT9xQxxAxxxxx ♠K was with the opener. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msjennifer Posted July 24, 2016 Report Share Posted July 24, 2016 Partners all points must be working points .He forced you to bid 3 S ..Why did he not bid himself? The answer is that he does not know the strength of overcall.Your overcall may be based on lead direction and could be made even missing the HK.My bid is 3 H to show a concentration in Heart suit and a very good overcall.Now whatever he bids is final.In the second sequence,which I refuse to accept ,my answer is Pass since he could have redoubled also and forced me to decide. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrAce Posted July 24, 2016 Author Report Share Posted July 24, 2016 Partners all points must be working points .He forced you to bid 3 S ..Why did he not bid himself? The answer is that he does not know the strength of overcall.Your overcall may be based on lead direction and could be made even missing the HK.My bid is 3 H to show a concentration in Heart suit and a very good overcall.Now whatever he bids is final.In the second sequence,which I refuse to accept ,my answer is Pass since he could have redoubled also and forced me to decide. Ok what do you want him to bid with hands like KJxxQJxQx xxxx or KJxxxxxxxxKQx over your 3♥? Bidding 3♥ will never solve any problems. You do not even want to be at 3 level and game is hopeless, while.... JTxxQxxxAxxxx is very decent and looking at a finesse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wank Posted July 24, 2016 Report Share Posted July 24, 2016 with no wastage in clubs i think your partner owed you more than 3s. i think that's what XX should show. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrAce Posted July 24, 2016 Author Report Share Posted July 24, 2016 with no wastage in clubs i think your partner owed you more than 3s. i think that's what XX should show. KJxxQJxQxxxxx has no wastage in clubs either. Max of a mix raise. Yet it is a hopeless game. KJxxQJxxQxxxx has no ♣ wastage, max of a mix raise, but even 3♠ is too high. xxxxQxxAxxxQx has ♣ wastage, not a good game but is not as hopeless as others. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caitlynne Posted July 24, 2016 Report Share Posted July 24, 2016 3C has forced to 3S, so fast arrival says that bidding 3S immediately is the weakest action. You could have less for your overcall - quite a bit less in some styles - so you should not bid 3S. With nothing worth showing, Pass is indicated. As the 3C bidder, once partner passes having shown a non-minimum overcall, the 3C bidder must judge what to do. 3S is to play opposite a normal sound overcall. So, the 1S bidder having shown a normal sound overcall must pass 3S, respecting partner's decision. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrAce Posted July 24, 2016 Author Report Share Posted July 24, 2016 3C has forced to 3S, so fast arrival says that bidding 3S immediately is the weakest action. You could have less for your overcall - quite a bit less in some styles - so you should not bid 3S. With nothing worth showing, Pass is indicated. As the 3C bidder, once partner passes having shown a non-minimum overcall, the 3C bidder must judge what to do. 3S is to play opposite a normal sound overcall. So, the 1S bidder having shown a normal sound overcall must pass 3S, respecting partner's decision. Are you and MsJennifer actually reading what has been written so far, or are you just clicking on topics and writing something for writing something? If you two think this topic was to inform people there is a difference between mix raise and preemptive raise, people already know it. If you two think that the hand in OP should make some sort of try by either passing or bidding 3♥ over DBL, this is already done as you see in OP. Of course 3♣ bidder must judge what to do, that is the purpose of this topic at the first place. What has been being debated here is which criterias should 3♣ bid take into consideration when making his/her judgement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msjennifer Posted July 24, 2016 Report Share Posted July 24, 2016 Could anyone explain what is over caller's partner supposed to bid holding xxxx,Qxxx,AKxx,x ?.Did some one say 4S and not 3C?.A game is cold unless of course over callers LHO holds all four missing trumps.A 3H bid by overcaller and 4S is automatic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrAce Posted July 24, 2016 Author Report Share Posted July 24, 2016 Could anyone explain what is over caller's partner supposed to bid holding xxxx,Qxxx,AKxx,x ?.Did some one say 4S and not 3C?.A game is cold unless of course over callers LHO holds all four missing trumps.A 3H bid by overcaller and 4S is automatic. Cue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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