Wackojack Posted July 16, 2016 Report Share Posted July 16, 2016 [hv=pc=n&n=sj84h54dakqt972ck&d=w&v=e&b=16&a=3h]133|200[/hv] MP pairs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eagles123 Posted July 16, 2016 Report Share Posted July 16, 2016 I would just bid 4d of course X could be right but so could 3n which would be my 2nd choice - anything other than 4d seems like a fairly wild punt to me 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfi Posted July 16, 2016 Report Share Posted July 16, 2016 I double in the hopes that partner bids 3NT. If partner bids 4C I just have to overbid with 4D (although maybe I can pretend we're playing equal-level conversion and it's systemic). Over 3S I'm probably going to pass, but this is the worst-case scenario. It seems like the frequency of a succesful 3NT bid from partner, along with the chances of getting to spades when it is right, outweigh the frequency of missing diamonds when that's the right spot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ggwhiz Posted July 16, 2016 Report Share Posted July 16, 2016 It seems like the frequency of a succesful 3NT bid from partner, along with the chances of getting to spades when it is right, outweigh the frequency of missing diamonds when that's the right spot. 4♦ for me and no, I don't like it. Double followed by a heart raise on my left is something I like a LOT less. All of partners options after a pass by lho, including pass are potential disasters given that owning a 3nt bid is wildly unlikely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jinksy Posted July 16, 2016 Report Share Posted July 16, 2016 +1 for 4♦. Constructively I suspect it's the wrong bid, but if I do anything else, I'm not going to be happy when 4♥ comes back around to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gordontd Posted July 16, 2016 Report Share Posted July 16, 2016 4♦ again. Constructively I suspect it's the wrong bid, but if I do anything else, I'm not going to be happy when 4♥ comes back around to me.That sounds like an argument for 5D but that wasn't given as an option. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jinksy Posted July 16, 2016 Report Share Posted July 16, 2016 That sounds like an argument for 5D but that wasn't given as an option. I don't know if they're making 4♥ - I'd like to include partner in the decision. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfi Posted July 16, 2016 Report Share Posted July 16, 2016 4♦ for me and no, I don't like it. Double followed by a heart raise on my left is something I like a LOT less. All of partners options after a pass by lho, including pass are potential disasters given that owning a 3nt bid is wildly unlikely. Wildly unlikely? I would have thought partner having a stopper and a 9 count is fairly normal. True, if they raise it's somewhat annoying and I may wind up misrepresenting my hand. I'm still not convinced the double is anti-percentage though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winstonm Posted July 16, 2016 Report Share Posted July 16, 2016 I've got 6 losers and a suit that is not totally solid - what do you want me to do? Pass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfi Posted July 17, 2016 Report Share Posted July 17, 2016 Well, good news (for me at least) is my regular partner doesn't think it's clear that I am totally lunatic, and may be intrigued enough to run a simulation to determine whether or not I actually am. Basically, the question of whether the three good things that can happen:Partner bids 3NT and it's rightPartner has 5+ spades and it's better than diamondsPartner has 4 spades and the Moysian plays well enoughoutweigh the bad things, particularly:Not finding a diamond fit when it's rightGetting too high when partner bids clubsThe bad news is he's likely to be trying to show how bad my double is, so I'm starting off behind even before the simulation is run. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mathboy Posted July 17, 2016 Report Share Posted July 17, 2016 3NT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmnka447 Posted July 17, 2016 Report Share Posted July 17, 2016 I've got 6 losers and a suit that is not totally solid - what do you want me to do? Pass.Sorry, but most people who play Gambling 3 NTs would have no trouble opening 3 NT in 1st chair with this hand. I'm bidding 4 ♦. If LHO has enough to punish me in 4 ♦, they probably have enough so 3 NT or 4 ♥ are a good bet. If they bid 4 ♥, I want partner to be able to take the ♦ sac if appropriate rather than have it go 3 ♥ - Dbl - 4 ♥ - P - P - ? and guess what to do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ggwhiz Posted July 17, 2016 Report Share Posted July 17, 2016 Wildly unlikely? (3nt response to double) Hmmm, Heart stopper, 2+ diamonds, <4 spades and a club holding more suitable for notrump as opposed to bidding them. That's a 4-way parlay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robert2734 Posted July 17, 2016 Report Share Posted July 17, 2016 4 ♦ and be worried its an underbid. My second choice is 5 ♦ . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msjennifer Posted July 18, 2016 Report Share Posted July 18, 2016 This hand in my opinion deserves a pass.Opponents are vulnerable against not and yet RHO has opened 3H ! If I bid 4D does it describe a good hand ready to play in four diamonds or does it show a desire to sacrifice? My opinion is the first choice.The third reason for bidding 4 diamonds is prevent LHO from biding 3S,3NT.( partner is not going to lead a diamond when you pass.The most likely lead is a spade or rarely a club).What to bid and with what intentions when a minor suit comes into picture is unclear.LHO's life is also not easy .I may consider to bid 5 D if LHO bids a game and partner passes.Double shows a four card spade suit when it is made ,in the second direct seat, at 3 level.My hand does not have a decent three card support for spades and since ,presumably,RHO is short in spades they are going to be stacked with LHO.And after a a double partner bids 4 Club what am I supposed to do.? I feel it is 'safer' to pass right now and decide later presuming the opponents are strong ones.Lastly, I don't mind losing a hand once In a while.! . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Badger Posted July 18, 2016 Report Share Posted July 18, 2016 The late great Rixi Markus usually advocated bid what's in your hand, so I go along with that and bid 4♦. Dbl might work out well, and both 3NT or 4♠ might be on but...knowing that two hands are unbalanced, you can bet your bottom dollar (or pound) that the suits are more likely to split horribly if you arrive in a contract. I believe Dbl could backfire horribly too if partner has to take a decision, thinking that your hand is a bit more meaty than beyond the ♦ suit. Yes 4♦ for me. And if we get the wrong result, we sure won't be the only ones. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrAce Posted July 18, 2016 Report Share Posted July 18, 2016 4♦>Pass>3NT>Dbl Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
helene_t Posted July 19, 2016 Report Share Posted July 19, 2016 If you don't bid 4d with this hand when will you ever? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfi Posted July 19, 2016 Report Share Posted July 19, 2016 If you don't bid 4d with this hand when will you ever? This question lies behind the reason people are willing to play non-leaping Michaels in these sorts of situations. My response is when I don't have a solid or near-solid suit that is likely to provide tricks in 3NT. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cherdano Posted July 19, 2016 Report Share Posted July 19, 2016 If you don't bid 4d with this hand when will you ever?When your suit is NOT solid? Edit:Oops. Just what sfi said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfi Posted July 19, 2016 Report Share Posted July 19, 2016 Just what sfi said. I knew I'd eventually find someone that agreed with something I said on this thread. ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrAce Posted July 19, 2016 Report Share Posted July 19, 2016 If you don't bid 4d with this hand when will you ever? Well said. You should bid 4♦ when it is not solid and you should not when it is solid. Sounds pretty nice to ears on forums, isn't it? Because at forums partner knows that your DBL is asking ♥ stopper, not a take out when it is convenient. And knows it is take out when it is also convenient and accurate. This auction can proceed in many different ways and starting DBL can lead to a complete disaster. But who cares? After all we found a way to allow pd to bid 3 NT when he has a stopper and he does not have better responses than just bidding 3 NT with a ♥ stopper in many hands. I am not even mentioning the unlikelihood of finding pd with a stopper when they open 3♥ at these colors. Hell...I will not even mention the likelihood of a ♣ lead when pd actually have good ♥ stoppers, or the small possibility that ♦ are not as solid as we think they are. Oh and I thought OP mentioned the MP and game bonuses do not pay as much as imps. Oh! Did I mention the possibility of dbl being converted due to the colors? I have defended with worse hands than this, I admit! But that does not make me hopeful if we end up defending. I ♥ BBF! It seems like the frequency of a succesful 3NT bid from partner, along with the chances of getting to spades when it is right, outweigh the frequency of missing diamonds when that's the right spot. This is a very good example of how can 2 people look at same hand and colors and same auction but think totally the opposite. Of course we all guess that is the case since it is asked in forums. That pd has a ♥ stopper and starting DBL will be fine for this hand in forums. In real life, it's another story. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neilkaz Posted July 19, 2016 Report Share Posted July 19, 2016 For me 4♦>X>pass>3nt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wackojack Posted July 23, 2016 Author Report Share Posted July 23, 2016 [hv=pc=n&s=sq32hkj9d83caq642&n=sj84h54dakqt972ck&d=w&v=0&b=8&a=3h4dp5dppp]266|200[/hv] This went 2 off when 3NT by either is a comfortable make. C'est la vie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrAce Posted July 23, 2016 Report Share Posted July 23, 2016 This went 2 off when 3NT by either is a comfortable make. C'est la vie This is a very good example of how can 2 people look at same hand and colors and same auction but think totally the opposite. Of course we all guess that is the case since it is asked in forums. That pd has a ♥ stopper and starting DBL will be fine for this hand in forums. In real life, it's another story. C'est la vie http://www.bridgebase.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/default/wink.gif Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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