How not to miss Grand Slam in this hand?

[pavsko]

Hi, I would like to ask for advice how correctly bid this game as South with SAYC and not to miss Grand Slam?

 

N:

K 9 6

A 7 4

K

Q J T 7 6 5

 

S:

A Q T

K Q 9 8 5

A 8 3

A K

 

I used this bidding sequence but I am not satisfied with it:

 

(N started with 1C):

1C-1H

2C-4C

5C-5D

6C-PASS

 

My 5D is not regarded as control bid (cuebid), is it? So how to investigate North's hand correctly? (I see no way how to use Blackwood or Gerber...)

[helene_t]

North has a control rich hand and should cooperate in slam investigations. In your auction, he first rejected South's slam try by bidding 5♣ and then again by bidding 6♣.

 

If North makes a control bid after South's 4♣, then South can use blackwood and maybe he will bid 7♣ then.

 

Oh yes, 5♣ is a control bid. Edit: Sorry I mean 5♦. Thanks, masse24.

Edited July 11, 2016 by helene_t

[Zelandakh]

There are a few possibilities here. One simple approach would be for Opener to raise hearts:-

 

1♣ - 1♥;

2♥ - 3♦; (inter alia)

4♥ - 4NT;

5♦ - 5NT;

6♥ - 7♥

 

After the club rebid, Responder also has choices. It is often sensible to take things slowly with such a hand, which should be interpreted as showing significant extras. For example, Responder might try a 2♦ rebid and follow that up with a 4th suit 2♠. The problem with this sort of approach is that it gets murky though. I doubt many pick-up partnerships would feel comfortable bidding grand in an auction of this type, whereas the direct raise auctions (2♥ or 4♣) offer better clarity even if they pass less information in theory.

 

As Helene suggests, in the actual auction North was a little cautious. It may be that they would expect a hand as strong as this one to respond with a strong jump shift though. That is of course the other easy route to the grand. After 1♣ - 2♥; 3♥, Responder will probably not find it overly taxing to reach 7 of something.

[masse24]

Oh yes, 5♣ is a control bid.

 

I think Helene meant that 5♦ is a control bid.

 

Therefore, even though North did not cooperate in slam investigation by bidding 5♣ (a mistake in my opinion), after the 5♦ control bid, he has another opportunity obligation to cooperate by showing the ♥ control.

[kenrexford]

Obviously, all of this depends on what your methods are. I don't know what SAYC does in all sequences, but a really simple start:

 

1♣-1♥

 

2♣-2♠

 

3♥-?

 

This start guarantees a GF with heart set as trumps, I assume. It also lets North in on the spade King being very important, although it turns out to be not all that exciting after all.

 

After 3♥, Responder could plunk about with a 3♠ cue, hoping to confirm the diamond stiff or King (4♦), but that seems somewhat unnecessary. The better part is allowing Opener to suggest poor clubs as a background for later aggressive moves. If responder blasts 4NT, Opener won't know that Q-sixth in clubs is neat. If Opener gets a chance to deny great clubs by NOT cuebidding 4♣, then he is free to show better things later.

 

I mean, suppose the 4♦ cuebid by Opener denies the Ace or King of clubs. How nice would that method be? After 4NT reveals one Key Card, Responder can ask for specific Kings. Surely a 6♣ "specific King" in clubs, a suit where you earlier denied the King, shows the Queen?

 

 

 

[pavsko]

Thanks very much for your answers. I found it extremely helpful.

(I have been learning bridge for only about 6 months)

I forgot to mention that the example was the one I played on my mobile app and North was AI not human.

[mikestar13]

With 14 tricks on top on any lead, these hands belong in 7NT, and a less sophisticated approach might work:

 

1♣-1♥

2♣-4NT

5♦-5♥

5♠-7NT

 

1♣,1♥,2♣ = as before

4NT = Blackwood -- I'm willing to gamble on 6♣ right now, I am checking for better things.

5♦ =One key card

5♥ =Queen ask.

5♠ = Got ♣Q, also have ♠K.

7NT = I can count thirteen trick if hearts or clubs split.

 

As it happens, the clubs are solid and 7NT is absolutely unbeatable--but change ♣JT to ♣32 and the odds are still excellent--maybe 90%.

[Zelandakh]

I forgot to mention that the example was the one I played on my mobile app and North was AI not human.

If your AI was GIB, it is worth pointing out that the system it uses is not SAYC.

[pavsko]

If your AI was GIB, it is worth pointing out that the system it uses is not SAYC.

 

This deal was not played here on BBO but in another app (and this app uses SAYC).

I just know this is a very good forum so I posted my question here...

[Cyberyeti]

This deal was not played here on BBO but in another app (and this app uses SAYC).

I just know this is a very good forum so I posted my question here...

 

Not relevant to SAYC, but this sort of problem is why a lot of people play a 3rd suit forcing style bid so 1♣-1♥-2♣-2♦ is artificial and either F1 or FG.

[Jinksy]

Playing it as artificial or not, over 2♣, 2♦ looks like south's best rebid to me (I don't see why you'd ever prefer 2♠).

 

It leads to a convoluted auction, but if you're on the same wavelength should be ok:

 

1♣ 1♥

2♣ 2♦

2♥ 2♠*

2N 3♥**

4♦ ?

 

* FSF

** The easiest way to set Hs and GF

 

At this stage south can try various things, but since north has all the cards he's looking for, he should end up in a grand. If I trusted my P I would opt for

 

(4♦) 4N***

5♣ 6♣****

7♣ Pass or 7N

 

*** RKCB for hearts

**** Asking for the QC (since we could ask for specific Kings with 5N)

[Lovera]

It is simple if used Minorwood: after 1♣-1♥, 2♣-4♣(=Mwd), 4♥(=14-A)-4♠(=?Queen), 5♦(=yes Q+K in diamond s.)-5♥(=?K), 5♠(=K of spade)-6NT, 7NT. The club suit could be fifth and without Jack than partner corrects having it sixth too.

[Zelandakh]

It is simple if used Minorwood:

It is simple with many systems but the question refers specifically to SAYC, which does not have RKCB let alone Minorwood.

[Lovera]

It is simple with many systems but the question refers specifically to SAYC, which does not have RKCB let alone Minorwood.

As you know i don't use SAYC but having seen that is most citated seems to me this lacking strange. Although RKCB and Minorwood can be inserted.

[Stefan_O]

 

1C-1H

2C-4C

...

 

With 14 tricks on top on any lead, these hands belong in 7NT, and a less sophisticated approach might work:

 

1♣-1♥

2♣-4NT

...

 

Ummmm... excuse me...

it's dead easy to bid when you see pds hand, of course, but 2C only promises 5 clubs (since opener can have 4-5 in the minors without reverse strength).

So jumping to 4C or 4NT (esp w 5♥ suit) would not even occur to me at the table...

 

I agree with kenrexford, you continue 2♠ over 2♣.

This is safe, since opener has already denied 4 cards in ♠ (did not bid 1♠ over 1♥).

[rhm]

If your AI was GIB, it is worth pointing out that the system it uses is not SAYC.

It is mystery to me what (known) system GIB is using.

I have my doubts it has one.

 

I give you a recent GIB hand

 

♠973 ♥AQT6 ♦QJ96 ♣84

 

Bidding

 

1♦-(1♥)-?

 

GIB bids 2♦, a poor chocie

 

The bidding continues:

 

1♦-(1♥)-2♦-(2♥)

3♣-(Pass)-?

 

and what does GIB bid?

 

It bids 3♥

 

As long as GIB bids like this I think system considerations are completely besides the point anyway.

 

Rainer Herrmann