Cheating?

[euclidz]

I have my suspicions – why?

 

He (no names) appeared a few weeks back and has just reached over 100 logins. My first suspicions were aroused when he clearly knew a lot amore about navigating his way around BBO than I did. After watching him for a while and noting how he likes to berate his partners for not bidding or playing the most advanced game I formed the view that he may have had a former identity and may have been banned for abuse. Then . . . watching him further I noted long pauses at some critical points of bidding and play. Then one night I watched as he was bidding a hand with a partner in a game where both sides were bidding. He and his partner had a Diamond / Heart fit, he having 4 Hearts to the King and his partner having 5 hearts to the Queen but wrongly and badly his partner had never bid his hearts. With hearts never being bid by his side and with his ops on a bid of 4 Clubs he went silent for 2 minutes and the came back and holding just 4 Hearts he bid 4 Hearts which was lay down. I wondered if he had somehow got a look at his partner’s hand? I looked at who was on-line kibitzing and there was a player there named zzzz_10895 who’s profile I could not see/access and searches since say "no players of that name."

 

Of course I could (and probably am) totally wrong and this person might just be a brilliant player with a short temper and a low tolerance for normal mortals but. . . . .

 

Any thoughts?

[ggwhiz]

Report the full details to abuse@bridgebase.com and a screenshot would make it easier on them if you had thought to grab one.

 

You won't hear back as they follow a strict confidentiality protocol but from personal experience they WILL follow up on it.

[eagles123]

My thoughts are send a report to abuse rather than ranting on here

[euclidz]

My thoughts are send a report to abuse rather than ranting on here

 

I am not ranting and I am not complaining. It's simply pathetic that anyone would to even consider cheating in any game of Bridge not least one which is an on-line game with no results, no prizes, no reward. I posted this here because (out of curiosity) I thought someone might have an explanation for zzzz or might suggest that it wasn't possible to cheat in this way.

[johnu]

FYI, kibitzers with user names that start with zzzz_ and a number are anonymous users. When you are at the login screen, click on the "Look around our site" button and you will be entered into BBO with a username starting with zzzz_. I think BBO abuse can determine what IP address the anonymous users are logging in from, so if the IP address of the actual player and the kibitzer are the same, they are probably the same person.

[euclidz]

FYI, kibitzers with user names that start with zzzz_ and a number are anonymous users.

 

Interesting

[The_Badger]

The easiest way to deal with these idiots, cheats, spoilers, whatever you wish to call them, euclidz (Jack), is to be host at a table and lock kibitzers from the table, or only allow those that you know. Alternatively, if you are not the host at the table, ask the host to do that. (Usually a cheat will also be host so that they control who comes and goes at the table.)

 

If you are host, just click on "table" and you will find the options available to exclude kibbers, or for kibbers to ask permission to join. Also, it is always worth checking regularly throughout a session if anyone is watching your table by clicking on "Who's Online" and "Kibitzers". A 'dodgy kibber' might join a few boards in...

 

I once had some idiot do this to me, and it took a fair few boards to suss out that there was something very untoward going on. Condescending abuse (to his partners - and opponents!) and arrogance, and a controlling streak that allowed him as host to 'boot players' from the table on a whim.

 

But 'The Badger' had the final laugh, staying on BBO for a couple of hours after it happened, and using Google Translate, telling all players that joined his table what he was like and how he was cheating, so they left immediately after joining and no-one would play with him. Then he tried joining a table not as host, with his 'dodgy kibber' watching, and I made sure that the host was informed and he was booted from table after table on numerous occasions. Poetic justice! :) (And I received a fair few 'thank yous' too.)

 

[by the way, my profile is now void and I play under another name, because of some of the idiots on BBO. Thankfully, there are many, many pleasant players on here, and the one or two who have to resort to abuse and/or cheating are in the very small minority}

[mathboy]

Use a cellphone to kibitize as a stranger,and you got an ID

zzzz_numbers.That is the way to kibitize yourself.

[GrahamJson]

Unfortunately this sort of thing does happen. I have reported two persons for cheating, one behaved very similarly to how you describe (maybe it's the same person under a different user name) and seems to have been banned. The other still plays but I am now less sure about their behaviour. Maybe they were warned and are now being honest.

 

The one who was banned was easy to spot. For example, with oppo bidding 1NT-3NT holding KQJ10xx xx Axx xx he lead the diamond ace, finding partner's KQxxx. Of course on a spade lead declarer takes the ace and cashes nine tricks. On another hand he pressed on to seven spades with a trump holding of xx opposite AKJxxx. With plenty of entries he cashed the top honours and dropped the offside queen. Even more blatantly twice he used Blackwood, found an ace missing but went on to bid seven. In both cases partner had an undisclosed void.

 

What made this cheater particularly bad was the abuse he gave partners, which is why I suspect he may be the same person that you have spotted.

 

One last piece of evidence. The banned guy played in three tournaments in which kibitzers weren't allowed. He came in the bottom three in each with scores of around 40%.

 

I suggest that you go to "hand records" and look at how your suspect has done over the last month. Did he ever miss guess a finesse, or fail to reach a good game or slam? Then send the evidence to BBO Abuse. Good luck. We need to keep this site clean.

[661_Pete]

Problem is, threads of this type give wannabe cheaters all the clues they need, should they see fit to embark on that nefarious course... :angry:

 

At least the hand complained of doesn't seem to have been played by the OP (was he kibitzing?): leastways I can't find any hand matching the description in his 'Hand Records'. Probably just as well.

 

As it happens, I partnered the OP for a few hands last night. No complaints, neither of partner nor opps. :) My impression is, by far the majority of BBO'ers are honest decent folk. OK there will always be a small rogue element...

 

There was one hand, months ago (so don't go searching for it!) where I felt impelled to report suspected cheating. I wasn't playing it (at least, not at that table) nor even kibbing, I found it in the hand records. It went:

[hv=pc=n&w=skjhktdkj63cak765&e=sat62haq972da9cj2&d=e&v=0&b=14&a=1hp7nppp]266|200[/hv]

I have not omitted any of the bids. 7NT was made, thanks to a 'lucky' finesse or two. If this isn't barefaced cheating....

 

So yes, it can happen.

[euclidz]

At least the hand complained of doesn't seem to have been played by the OP (was he kibitzing?):

 

Correct, as I said in my opening post, after my initial suspicions were aroused I watched him over a couple of weeks until the hand in question.

 

I think it would be helpful if different Clubs had their own moderators who might be better equipped to know who is 'straight' and who is not.

[Caitlynne]

I would suggest that you spend your time more productively than worrying about such things. Some people do cheat on BBO. Some people who others may suspect of cheating on BBO are not cheating. (They are just good or lucky.)

 

Should people cheat? Of course not.

 

If you think or strongly suspect someone is cheating and this bothers you, then leave the table at the end of the hand (or team match) and avoid playing with or against the suspected player again.

 

But don't accuse. You can't tell for sure.

[cynac]

It's quite fun looking at these things.....but I can't see the point of the person that's cheating.

[The_Badger]

"But don't accuse. You can't tell for sure." says Caitlynne in reply.

 

"It's quite fun looking at these things.....but I can't see the point of the person that's cheating." says cynac as an observation.

 

Well...any half-decent bridge player will know when someone is perennially cheating, because they do the unexpected time and time again. That's why Boye Brogeland and his bridge friends were able to identify the world class players who had resorted to cheating. Obviously, at international level, cheating is accompanied by prestige, money prizes and championships won, so there is a 'point' to it all.

 

On BBO it is usually someone who thinks they are better at the game than they really are - how many players have we all encountered who are deluded enough to call themselves 'Expert' or 'Advanced' but are nothing of the sort - and finally recognise that there's a bit more to this game than meets the eye, so they just resort to cheating as a way of 'justifying' their over-amplified status?

 

And there's the ones who just get a 'weird kick' out of doing this sort of thing, some sort of power trip, a manipulative control of their fellow players, people in general, and they bring their 'psychosis' to BBO.

 

Yes, the ones who cheat, and also the ones who overstate their bridge status by a long margin, are just sad, deluded individuals, who should know better, but bring their immaturity here. Let's leave it at that.

[Phil]

Yes this occurs.

 

Yes it occurs in high profile matches. The stakes of getting and staying hired are too high. Personally I think cheating online is like a gateway drug. It doesn't matter here, hell it doesn't matter in a club game where we play with a client and we take a little peeky and finish ITM in a regional and we get to jack our fee. Soon we find a partner with the same -ambitions- and we are making the R16.

 

Yes its pathetic. Yes, people notice and whisper.

 

To any wannabes; you will get caught. Maybe not right away.

[661_Pete]

It has been suggested that kibitzing offers the easy 'way in' for potential cheaters. Possibly true, but it would be a great shame if the ability to kib were removed from BBO. I am well aware that it's not allowed in most tournaments, and when I start up a table myself I generally disallow kibbing. But I do spend some of the time kibbing on BBO rather than playing. I visit the MBC as a kibitzer. I don't feel I'm qualified to play there, I know too little of modern systems like 2/1 - but one can learn things by watching others. Anyway it's a time-honoured practice, older than bridge itself.

 

And doesn't Victor Mollo's 'Oscar the Owl, Senior Kibitzer' spend all his time kibbing? IIRC, he never actually plays bridge!

 

It's also probably true that the electronic age may have made things even easier for the cheaters. I cannot help but chuckle at Goldfinger's elaborate set-up (in the 1960s movie), for whatever game they are playing. No need for that now!

[1eyedjack]

when I start up a table myself I generally disallow kibbing.

Personally I tend to veer away from sitting at "pick-up" tables that blanket deny kibitzers in a social setting. But that's OK, I am sure there are loads who do not. Some may even prefer it.

[Phil]

It has been suggested that kibitzing offers the easy 'way in' for potential cheaters. Possibly true, but it would be a great shame if the ability to kib were removed from BBO.

 

It has been suggested that a table host be given the choice of allowing human kibitzers but disallowing 'zzz' (anonymous) kibitzers. Now, if someone wanted to kib themselves theyd have to do so from an active account.

[youmac]

I am suspicious of anyone who takes more than 2 minutes to bid or play. I leave the table when this happens

[1eyedjack]

Haha if someone takes more than 30 seconds to bid or play I'm off, and I don't need no stinking suspicions.

[johnu]

Use a cellphone to kibitize as a stranger,and you got an ID

zzzz_numbers.That is the way to kibitize yourself.

 

You can just open up a new tab in your browser, or a new instance of a browser and you can log into BBO as an anonymous user in addition to your existing ID.

[billw55]

You can just open up a new tab in your browser, or a new instance of a browser and you can log into BBO as an anonymous user in addition to your existing ID.

Yes, but this results in matching IP addresses and hence is easy to detect. Connecting from a smartphone will give a different IP (although perhaps identifiable to the same geographic area).

[johnu]

Yes, but this results in matching IP addresses and hence is easy to detect. Connecting from a smartphone will give a different IP (although perhaps identifiable to the same geographic area).

 

Only if BBO is looking which would only happen if somebody complains and BBO goes through their login records. There are also various ways to hide your actual IP address. Anyways, BBO has frequently said that they can't control people who are banned from creating new ID's.

 

Also, if your phone is using wi-fi from the same network that your computer is on, I think you will show the same IP address. Easy enough to turn off wi-fi and use celluar data.

[661_Pete]

Personally I tend to veer away from sitting at "pick-up" tables that blanket deny kibitzers in a social setting.

Interesting that you should say that. Perhaps others feel as you do. Indeed I have doubts about my current preference, I'll have a think about this.

 

It's a bit unfair to criticise all players for slow play - though I do agree it can be irritating! Some may have an innocent excuse such as answering the phone or going to the toilet. Using "BRB" in the chat helps. And some are beginners, going through the learning process (yes I know: not all beginners put "beginner" on their profile!). Give them a chance!

 

And for BBO to institute a policy of blocking two players sharing the same IP address: that could penalise couples in the same household playing as partners - perfectly legally.

 

Moreover, before I registered with BBO I spent some time kibitzing as a "ZZZZ....". It would be a pity to deny potential new BBO members a chance to see how it goes before signing up.

[1eyedjack]

Interesting that you should say that. Perhaps others feel as you do. Indeed I have doubts about my current preference, I'll have a think about this.

It is a purely personal view. No idea if anyone else does the same. I would find it statistically surprising if I were unique, given the numbers, but I would not be surprised if I were rare.

 

But I think the main point is that there IS an option in the settings to allow kibbers subject to host's permission on a case by case basis, so you can still keep out the pond life.