denying stoppers

[straube]

If 1D-3D shows a limit raise and 1D is natural and unlimited (11-21 or so), then it's useful for opener's rebid of 3M to show strength in the suit because he's either searching for the best game or exploring slam.

 

If 1D is natural and limited and slam is unlikely, how about using 3M to show a weak doubleton or singleton in that suit? Are folks doing something like this...?

 

1D-3D,

......3H-weak here

..........3S-heart stop, no spade stop

................3N-spade stop

.....3S-heart stop, no spade stop

..........3N-spade stop

.....3N-not weak either major

 

The way I'm defining weakness, 1D-3D, 3N could be xxx Axxx AKQJx x because you're not especially worried about spades and can't show concern about clubs.

 

If we aren't able to show weakness in the major, then we have difficulty with something like xx xx AKxxxx AQx.

 

Also, if we use control/stopper showing bids, there's not much difference between 1D-3D, 3H-3S and 1D-3D, 3H-3N. Or maybe some play that there is. Maybe a 3S rebid could show

concern for clubs....IDK

[nige1]

If 1D-3D shows a limit raise and 1D is natural and unlimited (11-21 or so), then it's useful for opener's rebid of 3M to show strength in the suit because he's either searching for the best game or exploring slam.

If 1D is natural and limited and slam is unlikely, how about using 3M to show a weak doubleton or singleton in that suit? Are folks doing something like this...?

1D-3D,

......3H-weak here

..........3S-heart stop, no spade stop

................3N-spade stop

.....3S-heart stop, no spade stop

..........3N-spade stop

.....3N-not weak either major

The way I'm defining weakness, 1D-3D, 3N could be xxx Axxx AKQJx x because you're not especially worried about spades and can't show concern about clubs.

If we aren't able to show weakness in the major, then we have difficulty with something like xx xx AKxxxx AQx.

Also, if we use control/stopper showing bids, there's not much difference between 1D-3D, 3H-3S and 1D-3D, 3H-3N. Or maybe some play that there is. Maybe a 3S rebid could show

concern for clubs....IDK

I suppose, more normal is something like....

• 1♦ - 3♦ - 3♥ (♥ stop) - 3N (♣ stop)
• 1♦ - 3♦ - 3♥ (♥ stop) - 3♠ (♠ stop)
• 1♦ - 3♦ - 3♥ (♥ stop) - 4♦ (no black stop)
• 1♦ - 3♦ - 3♠ (♠ stop) - 3N (♥ stop)
• 1♦ - 3♦ - 3♠ (♠ stop) - 4♦ (no ♥ stop)

Here, you might also agree that 4♣ showed 3+ support for opener's bid major in case opener wanted to hazard game in that suit.

 

I agree with straube that there could be a gain for denying stoppers rather than showing them, because opener usually stops 2 suits and is more often worried about a major than the other minor.

[Zelandakh]

I have long argued this case, not only here but in many other auctions. If doing it the traditional way you need to use the last suit conventionally, either as Nige describes (showing) or perhaps more commonly as a weakness call. But it is not having any call at all for the very first stopper check that tends to cause the biggest problems, which means that the asking approach is imho both simpler and more effective. If you do switch to it though, consider adding it as a general approach throughout the system so as not to need to make it a special case in this auction.