Double or 2 Diamonds?

[dickiegera]

[hv=pc=n&e=sk85ha92dakq8753c&d=s&v=0&b=11&a=1cpp]133|200|What is best here?

 

2 diamonds OR Double?[/hv]

[Tramticket]

Delete - mis-read question

[helene_t]

IMO 3♣ is quite descriptive and should be considered.

[MrAce]

IMO 3♣ is quite descriptive and should be considered.

 

I am afraid that could be showing clubs and a good hand. Looking for 3 NT instead of setting them undoubled.

[Cyberyeti]

IMO 3♣ is quite descriptive and should be considered.

 

Don't like the void for 3♣. Pard has xxxxx, x, xx, AKQJx, you go off in 3N with 6♦ good and 7 having play.

[ggwhiz]

I prefer 2♦ but would double if I had a club to lead if it went float..

[MrAce]

Amazing that I have not witnessed this bid in 34 years of my bridge life, so I polled what is 3♣ in BW. Thanks Helene!

[ahydra]

I prefer 2♦ but would double if I had a club to lead if it went float..

 

You wouldn't be on lead though.

 

I'm voting for 2D and making a mental note to discuss jump overcalls in balancing seat with partner tomorrow.

 

ahydra

[Phil]

If 2D is good 3D must be better.

 

If my clubs and diamonds were switched wouldn't we want to be able to bid 3C?

 

I don't think I've seen the auction either but I can't imagine 3C being a stopper ask.

[rmnka447]

delete

[ggwhiz]

Making the same bid as you would make with a frumpy 11 point opener just won't cut it.

 

2♦ here shows 16ish pts with 6+ diamonds. Frumpy 11 counts bid 1♦.

 

ps I should have said I want 1 club to switch to instead of lead. in case double goes float.

[rmnka447]

A cow flew by in my first response which I've deleted. I was pretty discombobulated and thinking the auction was something else. Getting old.

 

In reopening seat, 1 ♦ could be anything. 2 ♦ should show something like 6 good ♦ and 12-15 count.

 

So the choice comes down to possibly bidding 3 ♦ initially or doubling then rebidding/jump rebidding ♦.

 

I'm probably bidding 3 ♦ because it keeps 3 NT in play and makes it difficult for the opponents to compete in the majors.

[nige1]

[hv=pc=n&e=sk85ha92dakq8753c&d=s&v=0&b=11&a=1cpp]133|200|

What is best here?

2 diamonds OR Double?[/hv]

I rank

1. 3♣ = ASK. for ♣ stop. I agree with Helene_t that this is the practical option.
2. 2♦ = NAT. Intermediate. Quite descriptive.
3. 1♦ = NAT.
4. Double = T/O. Partner might pass.

IMO a sensible way of replying to a jump-cue is:

• 3N = NAT. With stop in opponent's suit
• Cheaper minor = NEG. Weak.
• Major suit bid = NAT. Good 5+ suit. Values.
• Cue = ART. Values no good 5+ suit.

[SteveMoe]

We play (1♣) - 3♣ (direct seat) as preemptive, not Stopper ask/Western.

We play 1 any - P - P - J/S as either:

1) Intermediate 12-16, or

2) Intermediate Plus 14-17.

 

If 1) is our agreement, then we need to bid 2♣ (partner to bid) then simple ♦ rebid. Double is wrong on this hand. Too much offense.

If 2) is our agreement, then we bid 2♦.

 

I prefer 2), so 2♦ it is.

[sfi]

This looks about one and a half tricks too good for a reopening 2D bid, and I typically play 3C as natural and similar to a jump shift (aiming for 3NT if partner has some values). Additionally, slam may be an easy make if partner happens to find a 2M response with QJxxx and a couple of other junky cards, so I don't want to give up on strains other than diamonds yet.

 

So double it is.

[fourdad]

As my reg pds and I would play both 2-3 diamonds as preemptive, I Double.

 

Responder does not have enough to bid (<6) and my pd's pass means:

 

Weak or,

clubs with unknown strength.

 

Opener may be the strongest hand at the table.

[Tramticket]

For us, 3♣ is the Western Cue bid - mainly because on this side of the pond, the opening 1♣ is likely to be a real suit.

 

It is tempting, but I'm not sure that it is right with the void. Partner's stopper in a suit such as ♣Qxxx may be less effective if I have literally nothing to help.

[Caitlynne]

The alternatives provided really don't cover the range of possibilities too well.

 

2D is such a huge underbid that it should not even be on the list! Surely, if you think it is right to bid your diamond suit naturally, 3D is far superior.

 

So, I chose Dbl. But I don't really like Dbl much since partner has, for all practical purposes (if partner has some reasonable values), denied the presence of a 5 card major. It sure doesn't require much to overcall 1H or 1S unless your partnership practices a very stodgy, super sound overcall structure!

 

But, as I mentioned, other bids occur to me. One is the aforementioned 3D. The other is 3C - if partner will understand this to mean that I have a solid 7 card suit - is 3C. I would not trot 3C out at the table undiscussed, so for me, 3D seems best.

[Zelandakh]

Amazing that I have not witnessed this bid in 34 years of my bridge life, so I polled what is 3♣ in BW. Thanks Helene!

By default (1X) - 3X is natural if X is a minor, a long running minor without a stop if X is a major. Ghestem and Crash users will obviously use (1♣) - 3♣ for some 2-suited hand. I personally like to play it as a strong hand with both majors in a non-Michaels/non-Ghestem structure but that obviously requires a specific agreement.

 

Oh, and to the OP question, 2♦ shows a weaker hand than this in the most popular style so my preference is for double. If partner passes this they will probably have better clubs than declarer and we will be leading our diamonds through. So I would expect to do pretty well if the double gets passed out. B-)

 

It is a shame Phil is no longer here. This looks like the best hand for a traditional 2♣ overcall we have seen for a long time!

[fourdad]

What happened to Phil?

[Phil]

What happened to Phil?

 

PhilG007 is on forced hiatus until July but I'll be around. Hopefully my posts aren't as entertaining as his.

[miamijd]

Amazing that I have not witnessed this bid in 34 years of my bridge life, so I polled what is 3♣ in BW. Thanks Helene!

 

3C can be one of two things depending on partnership agreement. It can either be preemptive in clubs or else a bid showing a solid 7-card suit and asking for a stop for 3NT. Depends on partnership agreement. I'd say preemptive is more common for clubs against a standard bidding system.

 

3D over 1D is the same, although I'd say that's more 50-50 in terms of how people treat it.

 

3H over 1H and 3S over 1S are always showing a solid 7-card suit (usually a minor) and asking for a stop for NT. Usually you'll have the seven-card suit and one outside Ace, so that partner's stop is trick 9. Partner typically bids 3NT with a stop and 4C (pass or correct) without one, but if partner has a game-force hand with no stop, he bids 4D.

 

Cheers,

Mike

[miamijd]

2♦ here shows 16ish pts with 6+ diamonds. Frumpy 11 counts bid 1♦.

 

ps I should have said I want 1 club to switch to instead of lead. in case double goes float.

 

2D doesn't show a 16 count. It shows a good opener with a good 6+ card diamond suit.

 

2D here grossly understates the strength of this hand. If partner has a club stop, you have game. If he has KQxxx of H and out, you may well have 7H.

 

You have little choice other than X.

[miamijd]

I rank

1. 3♣ = ASK. for ♣ stop. I agree with Helene_t that this is the practical option.
2. 2♦ = NAT. Intermediate. Quite descriptive.
3. 1♦ = NAT.
4. Double = T/O. Partner might pass.

IMO a sensible way of replying to a jump-cue is:

• 3N = NAT. With stop in opponent's suit
• Cheaper minor = NEG. Weak.
• Major suit bid = NAT. Good 5+ suit. Values.
• Cue = ART. Values no good 5+ suit.

 

If you play it as this sort of hand, then 3C is a good bid here. Many don't, however.

 

If you play 3C as preemptive, X is far, far better than either 1D or 2D. Yes, partner might pass a X, but he is much more likely to pass a 1D or 2D bid. If partner passes a X, that might still be fine (at IMPs, you'll beat 1CX a couple tricks if partner has the expected club stack; at MPs, partner might not have enough stuff outside of clubs to bid over 1D or 2D). But if partner passes 1D or 2D, you are very likely headed for a bad score.

 

2d doesn't show an "intermediate" 16-17 hand. It's a solid opener with a good 6+ diamond suit. Axx Kxx KQJxxx x would be just fine for that bid. And your hand isn't an "intermediate" hand. It's a rock-crusher.

 

Cheers,

mike

[miamijd]

As my reg pds and I would play both 2-3 diamonds as preemptive, I Double.

 

Responder does not have enough to bid (<6) and my pd's pass means:

 

Weak or,

clubs with unknown strength.

 

Opener may be the strongest hand at the table.

 

Why would you play jump bids as preemptive when responder has passed? There is no more need to preempt.