alphred Posted June 8, 2016 Report Share Posted June 8, 2016 We are vulnerable, opps not. RHO opens 2H. I have: ♠ K 9 6♥ A 2♦ K Q 9♣ K J 8 7 4 What is my bid? Thank you all Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted June 8, 2016 Report Share Posted June 8, 2016 Dbl was the knee-jerk but I think 2N is a little better. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eagles123 Posted June 8, 2016 Report Share Posted June 8, 2016 i double Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyberyeti Posted June 8, 2016 Report Share Posted June 8, 2016 2N Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrAce Posted June 8, 2016 Report Share Posted June 8, 2016 2 NT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ggwhiz Posted June 8, 2016 Report Share Posted June 8, 2016 double Give me a 3rd heart for 2nt for hold up purposes. Close decision but marginally possible to right side 3nt from partners side and a spade moyse is playable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fluffy Posted June 8, 2016 Report Share Posted June 8, 2016 2NT, not because I like the shape ( I prefer double with this shape) but because it gets the strength more accurately. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jinksy Posted June 8, 2016 Report Share Posted June 8, 2016 What's their preempting style in that position? If they regularly do it on a five-card suit, dbl. Else 2N. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nige1 Posted June 8, 2016 Report Share Posted June 8, 2016 We are vulnerable, opps not. RHO opens 2H. I have: ♠ K 9 6 ♥ A 2 ♦ K Q 9 ♣ K J 8 7 4 Agreeing with majority, I rank2N = BAL.Double = T/O. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wank Posted June 8, 2016 Report Share Posted June 8, 2016 i double. if it's a part score hand it's unlikely to play best in 2NT. if it's a game hand it'll often be best by p's hand. if p bids 2S or lebensohls out into 3D, i wouldn't feel i had enough extra to be guilty about passing. it would be more of a problem for me with the Q of S extra. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenberg Posted June 8, 2016 Report Share Posted June 8, 2016 i double. if it's a part score hand it's unlikely to play best in 2NT. if it's a game hand it'll often be best by p's hand. if p bids 2S or lebensohls out into 3D, i wouldn't feel i had enough extra to be guilty about passing. it would be more of a problem for me with the Q of S extra. I'm going with X also, but I am replying here to ask: Suppose pard Lebs to 3S? X-2NT-3C-3S by us. That's more than 2S, less than a direct 3S, nothing special about length as far as I know. Is it now worth 3NT? I assume so. And if pard has five will he know to pull to 4S? I think X or 2NT is a close call, and it is worth thinking about what happens next. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfi Posted June 9, 2016 Report Share Posted June 9, 2016 I'm going with X also, but I am replying here to ask: Suppose pard Lebs to 3S? X-2NT-3C-3S by us. That's more than 2S, less than a direct 3S, nothing special about length as far as I know. Is it now worth 3NT? I assume so. And if pard has five will he know to pull to 4S? My typical agreement is this is invitational with exactly 4 spades. Similarly, a delayed 3nt bid is choice of games with 4 spades and a heart stopper and a delayed cue is FG with exactly 4 spades. It makes it much easier to sort out these sorts of hands. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfi Posted June 9, 2016 Report Share Posted June 9, 2016 We are vulnerable, opps not. RHO opens 2H. I have: ♠ K 9 6♥ A 2♦ K Q 9♣ K J 8 7 4 What is my bid? Thank you all 2nt without much conviction. If partner were a passed hand I think double would be clear since a part score is our likely target. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wank Posted June 9, 2016 Report Share Posted June 9, 2016 I'm going with X also, but I am replying here to ask: Suppose pard Lebs to 3S? X-2NT-3C-3S by us. That's more than 2S, less than a direct 3S, nothing special about length as far as I know. Is it now worth 3NT? I assume so. And if pard has five will he know to pull to 4S? I think X or 2NT is a close call, and it is worth thinking about what happens next. lebensohl to 3s is an invite with 4. jumping to 3s is an invite with 5 as far as i'm concerned. playing your way you'd have a quandry. you'd bid on, but you wouldn't know whether to bid 3NT or 4S. i suppose you'd bid 3NT and hope partner can correct back to 4S when it's right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrAce Posted June 9, 2016 Report Share Posted June 9, 2016 playing your way you'd have a quandry. you'd bid on, but you wouldn't know whether to bid 3NT or 4S. i suppose you'd bid 3NT and hope partner can correct back to 4S when it's right. In addition to this, if you start DBL and if pd is allowed to bid 3♠ with only 4 card, what would you guys do with 19-20 hcp balanced NT hands, if you are bidding 3 NT with the current hand in discussion.(over 3 sp) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcphee Posted June 9, 2016 Report Share Posted June 9, 2016 Double, Ax for 2N not a thrill and when a NT game is right I can not see how starting with double will complicate things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhm Posted June 9, 2016 Report Share Posted June 9, 2016 Dbl was the knee-jerk but I think 2N is a little better.2NT is rarely a good contract and the success of 3NT will often depend on that it will be declared from partners side. Hard to see how this is going to happen once you overcall 2NT.I am for the knee-jerk option here. Rainer Herrmann Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmnka447 Posted June 9, 2016 Report Share Posted June 9, 2016 2 NT for me. When one bid can describe your hand, why not use it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyberyeti Posted June 9, 2016 Report Share Posted June 9, 2016 2NT is rarely a good contract and the success of 3NT will often depend on that it will be declared from partners side. Hard to see how this is going to happen once you overcall 2NT.I am for the knee-jerk option here. Rainer Herrmann a) very often, RHO will have KQJxxx or similar and who declares will be irrelevant, you just have to play him to not have a side entryb) if LHO passes, X may work well, if he raises you probably wish you bid 2N to convey your range I think it's pretty close, but prefer to get the hand off my chest in one bid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zelandakh Posted June 9, 2016 Report Share Posted June 9, 2016 When one bid can describe your hand, why not use it?2NT shows roughly 8 of your cards and shows your strength to within 3-4 points but is misleading about the holding in a critical suit. Double implies 9 of your cards but is nebulous about the hand strength. Both calls decsribe the hand more or less but are also not perfect in every detail. Therefore it is not surprising that there is a difference of opinion amongst the replies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winstonm Posted June 9, 2016 Report Share Posted June 9, 2016 After a lot of agony, I opt for double as the fear of the Moysian fit in spades is somewhat counter balanced by the length in clubs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eagles123 Posted June 9, 2016 Report Share Posted June 9, 2016 the more I look at this hand the more i don't understand the argument for 2n. - our heart holding is horrid and likely to wrong side the contract- we have tolerance for all other suits- as wank points out if p lebs into 3 of a minor we're unlikely to miss game- as much as bidding 2n pinpoints our values, double shows values as well (albeit not to such a defined range) what is the advantage of 2n over x on this hand? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mycroft Posted June 9, 2016 Report Share Posted June 9, 2016 Mostly, (2♥)-2NT-p-3NT vs (2♥)-X-p-2♠-p-? Given a choice between two calls, one of which limits your hand and the other that does not, there is *always* an advantage to limiting your hand and letting partner make intelligent decisions. Whether the fact that this "15-17 balanced with a heart stopper" is a really bad one is enough of a disadvantage to balance or tip the scales against the limiting call is a question. Whether the fact that "the suit partner is going to strain to bid if I double" is only 3 cards, or the fact that the lead (as long as it isn't a heart) is going to go through the kings is enough of a disadvantage to double to push the bad 2NT call to the forefront is also a question. I tend toward sound direct overcalls of preempts. Many don't like the fact that they get preempted out of a lot of auctions, so they'd double with a king or more less. They have the added disadvantage of the double that advancer will want even more to invite than my partners, which makes the stronger-minimum 2NT call even more of a draw. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted June 10, 2016 Report Share Posted June 10, 2016 the more I look at this hand the more i don't understand the argument for 2n. - our heart holding is horrid and likely to wrong side the contract This presumes partner's heart holding is good enough to bid NT. Partner probably isn't bidding it on Qx or JTx, and holdings like KJx may not matter anyway. The only clear win for trying to right side this is Q-third. - we have tolerance for all other suits We also have a balanced hand and a trick source. I'm not feeling particularly good about putting this hand down in 4♠ and I cringe at putting it down in 3♦. - as wank points out if p lebs into 3 of a minor we're unlikely to miss game But minimum 2N calls from partner do exactly that. Plus we have good fillers in his suit which makes NT more likely. - as much as bidding 2n pinpoints our values, double shows values as well (albeit not to such a defined range) Not even close. I would double with a stiff heart and at least an ace less. what is the advantage of 2n over x on this hand? Because its so descriptive as to point count and the hand wants to play NT. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike777 Posted June 10, 2016 Report Share Posted June 10, 2016 We are vulnerable, opps not. RHO opens 2H. I have: ♠ K 9 6♥ A 2♦ K Q 9♣ K J 8 7 4 What is my bid? Thank you all Double...tough hands as usual I fall back on options to double or cuebid. Have no objection if you prefer 2nt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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