Opening 1nt with a 5-card major

[cheech]

Basically, I was taught that a 1NT opening categorically denies a 5-card major, but my regular partner is of the view that 1NT is a great bid that should be used wherever possible - even with a 5-card major, and I was curious to see what others think

 

Thanks,

Chica

[Elianna]

I don't really think that I can vote for either of these three categories. I choose option four: depends on what I can rebid if I don't open 1nt.

 

Usually I don't have a problem with 15 bad points, or 17 points, but with 16 points and a balanced hand, I usually have rebid issues, so I will open that 1nt.

 

(I obviously play 15-17 NT.)

[luke warm]

as a general rule i open 1nt when my hand fits the definition of 1nt - 12-14/15 with a balanced hand... with or without a 5 cd M

[the hog]

Agree with Jimmy, regardless of the NT range.

[Gerben42]

I vote in Elianna's category.

[ABadPlayer]

I almost always open NT with a 5 carder, regardless of whether it's a Major or minor, as long as the hand is balanced and falls within the appropriate hcp range. When playing a Str NT this is especially usefull when holding 5H since it helps you avoid a rebid problem you may encounter with an opening of 1H.

[pclayton]

Although as a rule, I generally open these hands 1N, to me, its more of an issue of the overall quality of the hand.

 

For instance, the other day I opened 1♠ on: Axxxx, Ax, AKx, xxx; very 'sharp', no tenaces - try to get pard to declare if possible.

[Fluffy]

but my regular partner is of the view that 1NT is a great bid that should be used wherever possible

Here is one of the leys why I don't like to open with 5 card majors, I find the 1NT opening a bad one.

 

opening 1NT gets rid of your major fit whenever responder has less than 5 cads on it and its 5-7, ,wich happens rather often. So I find the 1NT opening worse than 1x openings.

[sceptic]

Basically, I was taught that a 1NT opening categorically denies a 5-card major, but my regular partner is of the view that 1NT is a great bid that should be used wherever possible - even with a 5-card major, and I was curious to see what others think

 

1NT is a great bid, I have great fun opening them, I was taught, well may be taught is not the right term, I listened to lots of players that insisted NT Denies a 4 card major, since being converted about 12- 18 months ago I have never looked back, try them and see for your self.

 

 

as for 1NT is a great bid it should be used wherever possible, I think it would be better used appropriately wherever possible, I am no expert though, as fluffy says he does not like them, he is an expert, I am good beginner / intermediate level, but I am sure that you willl find other experts that have a positive view on 5 card majors in 1NT openers.

 

If your reg pard wants to try them, go for it, then decide, I think you will be happy with the result, you wont get any worse than experimenting

[sceptic]

and I wont be ticking any of the 3 boxes as I dont fall in those catorgorys

[kgr]

I don't open 1NT with a 5 card M. If it is a bad 5-card, so good stopper in other suits then I still open 1NT.

If puppet stayman would fit in my 1NT system so I can find the 5-3 fit then I would open 1NT with 5 card M.

[kenberg]

The issue for me is not whether or not the 5 card major is crappy but rather how pepared I am to hear something other than a raise of my major. Zeke Jabbour has an article on this in the latest ACBL Bulletin and my thoughts follow somewhat along his lines, and there are a fair number of people who seem to think this way at least more or less.

 

I take it we are playing 15-17.

 

Suppose that you have a 3-5-3-2 hand with a decent 16 count. You open 1H, partner responds 1S. Now what? Perhaps you play Flannery so this would not be a problem. OK, change the hand to 2-5-3-3.

 

If my 3 card minor is, say, AJx then maybe I don't mind bidding this after 1H- 1S, and if also my spade holding is weak then bidding 1H seems attractive. Let partner struggle with the NT. If my spade holding contains some non-ace honors and my three card minor(s) are marginal, then 1NT might be a better choice.

 

Zeke pretty much recommends (this is my understanding) that the hand have 16 HCPs and either have a 5 card heart suit or a crappy (your term but he would probably accept it) spade suit if the major opening is to yield to the NT opening. I see it a little broader, but roughly the same.

 

I won't be insulted if you decide Zeke knows more about this than I do.

 

As near as I can see, it is perfectly reasonable for you to decline to open 1NT with a five card major and for your partner to continue to do it his way. Partners are not allowed to have the meaning of a bid vary with which person makes it, but in any partnership views differ on the right bid. I am not a rules expert but this seems right to me. For example, I balance less frequently than my regular partner does. We simply disagree about this. I doubt it is illegal. I am more inclined to open 1NT on a 3-4-1-5 shape, when 1C-1S-2H seems wrong, than he is. Others may know more about the legalities of one partner maybe having, the other definitely not having, a five card major.

 

Ken

[Gerben42]

I recommend that holding 5♥332 and no good rebid you open 1NT and respond 2NT to Stayman, showing 5♥. Then 3♣ asks where the doubleton is and 3♦ is a transfer.

[pclayton]

The issue for me is not whether or not the 5 card major is crappy but rather how pepared I am to hear something other than a raise of my major. Zeke Jabbour has an article on this in the latest ACBL Bulletin and my thoughts follow somewhat along his lines, and there are a fair number of people who seem to think this way at least more or less.

 

I take it we are playing 15-17.

 

Suppose that you have a 3-5-3-2 hand with a decent 16 count. You open 1H, partner responds 1S. Now what? Perhaps you play Flannery so this would not be a problem. OK, change the hand to 2-5-3-3.

 

If my 3 card minor is, say, AJx then maybe I don't mind bidding this after 1H- 1S, and if also my spade holding is weak then bidding 1H seems attractive. Let partner struggle with the NT. If my spade holding contains some non-ace honors and my three card minor(s) are marginal, then 1NT might be a better choice.

 

Zeke pretty much recommends (this is my understanding) that the hand have 16 HCPs and either have a 5 card heart suit or a crappy (your term but he would probably accept it) spade suit if the major opening is to yield to the NT opening. I see it a little broader, but roughly the same.

 

I won't be insulted if you decide Zeke knows more about this than I do.

 

As near as I can see, it is perfectly reasonable for you to decline to open 1NT with a five card major and for your partner to continue to do it his way. Partners are not allowed to have the meaning of a bid vary with which person makes it, but in any partnership views differ on the right bid. I am not a rules expert but this seems right to me. For example, I balance less frequently than my regular partner does. We simply disagree about this. I doubt it is illegal. I am more inclined to open 1NT on a 3-4-1-5 shape, when 1C-1S-2H seems wrong, than he is. Others may know more about the legalities of one partner maybe having, the other definitely not having, a five card major.

 

Ken

I read that same article in the bulletin. Jabbour was rather 'conclusive' that this was the best way to play and settles the 'argument' about opening a 5 card major with 1N.

 

Good to hear. :)

 

Somehow, I think this concept will still be discussed for the coming millineum.

[pork rind]

;) i try to always open 1nt with a 5 card maj. i like 3c as puppet. but you do miss some good 2h and 2s partials. and since i play with a lot of different partners i frequently dont have a partner who likes this approach. but i have had pretty decent results with it. tc

[GijsH]

Before we accept Zeke's word as the "final wisdom" on this issue, the Italians have a better solution called Gazzilli. Maybe best to let the USA follow Zeke's gospel and we in the Old World have an advantage playing Gazzilli (or similar). ;)

[the hog]

Before we accept Zeke's word as the "final wisdom" on this issue, the Italians have a better solution called Gazzilli. Maybe best to let the USA follow Zeke's gospel and we in the Old World have an advantage playing Gazzilli (or similar). ;)

With all due respects, I would hardly accept Zeke's view above either that of the Italians or of Meckwell who include all 5332 shapes in the appropriate NT range.

[Free]

Unless we agree specificly we don't bid 1NT with a 5 card Major (for a good reason, like in my f2f system), I ALWAYS bid NT with any 5 card. If it's ♥, you have a preemptive effect to get opps out of ♠s, when it's ♥s, you can safely balance if it's a decent suit. So no real problems imo.

[lenze]

My rules regarding 1NT openings are simple.

 

After finding my point count to be in my range (usually 15-17)

 

1) First I check to see that I don't have a singleton or void.

2) I next check to see that I don't have more than 2 doubletons.

3) Then I check to see that I don't have a 6 card major.

 

So far, so good. I open 1NT.

 

This comes from my belief that it is better to have a rule to handle situations then to try and GUESS what to do each time it comes up. If your rule isn't working and gives you bad results, you can ALWAYS change your rule.

 

lenze

[Guest Jlall]

1N. I have opened 1N with AKxxx xx AKQ xxx. Yes this is probably extreme :o

[P_Marlowe]

In my current face to face partnership, I never open 1

NT with a 5 card suit. But I am not very passionate about

this, in other word, if I would play in a different partnership

I could easily persuaded to switch.

 

Actually I think, the advantage and the disadvantage of either

approach cancel each other out.

 

With kind regards

Marlowe

[helene_t]

Short answer is "always". Long answer is "it depends".

 

With a doubleton clubs, I always open 1NT since otherwise I'd have to rebid 2♦ on a 3-card.

 

With a doubleton in the other major, I sometimes open 1M at matchpoints to avoid playing in the 5-2-fit instead of the 5-3-fit. Especially when vulnerable, when I want partner to declare, and when I have spades.

[kgr]

;) i try to always open 1nt with a 5 card maj. i like 3c as puppet. but you do miss some good 2h and 2s partials. and since i play with a lot of different partners i frequently dont have a partner who likes this approach. but i have had pretty decent results with it. tc

Why do you use 3C and not 2C as puppet?

General Q for those who open 1NT with 5-card M:

Do you use stayman and forget about 5-3 fit or do you use pupper or something else to find the 5-3 fit?

[Gerben42]

Scanning through the thread I found someone wrote an article on this. So I will ask this: Who is Zeke Jabbour and where can I find his article on opening 1NT with a 5-card major?

[Free]

;)  i try to always open 1nt with a 5 card maj.  i like 3c as puppet.  but you do miss some good 2h and 2s partials.  and since i play with a lot of different partners i frequently dont have a partner who likes this approach.  but i have had pretty decent results with it.  tc

Why do you use 3C and not 2C as puppet?

General Q for those who open 1NT with 5-card M:

Do you use stayman and forget about 5-3 fit or do you use pupper or something else to find the 5-3 fit?

I'll speak for myself here...

 

In Belgium, most play 1NT as any 4333/4432/5332 with 15-17 HCP. We like garbage stayman, and 3♣ as GF puppet stayman. It's a matter of what you like. With invitational hands and a maximum opener, you'll also find a 5-3 fit, because after a bidding like 1NT-2♣-2M-2NT-3M opener is maximum with a 5 card M. So it's only the bare minimums which don't find the 5-3 fit.

The advantages of garbage stayman imo are great, so we don't want to give that up for a 2-level puppet stayman.