simple bidding situation?

[billw55]

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IMP pairs, white v red, 2/1, reliable BBO partner.

 

What's your call and why?

[Cyberyeti]

2N particularly if I'm playing my 2/1 in a style where openings are sound. Partner can have a pretty big hand here and game can just be laydown, if partner is made to bid again over say 2♥ on some of the hands which we'll make game, we'll go miles overboard when I have the 2♣ instead of the A.

 

Do you really want partner to have to bid again with A, AKJ10x, Jxxx, Qxx if we sign off ?

[rmnka447]

2 NT for the same reasons as Cyberyeti stated. You have a "good" 10 with good fitting cards in pard's suits and stoppers in the other suits.

[kenberg]

Call me pessimistic, but I go with 2H. I agree it is close to 2NT but 2H for me.

[wank]

it's obviously a straight choice between 2n and 2h.

 

i'd go for 2H. you are allowed to have a maximum for your bid, especially non-vul. if i had an extra 10, ideally in spades, i'd bid 2NT.

[Phil]

2H for me. Game seems far off with this mesh even if we have 25-26.

[gwnn]

Mental cointoss.

[mike777]

Easy 2H

 

If you play 2d promises a third bid here unless responder passes, rebids his own suit or jumps to game, then 2h is easy.( an old fashion style)

 

Also if you play this auction where opener can be any random minimum hand with an 11 count then you still have an easy 2h rebid. (modern style)

[nige1]

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IMP pairs, white v red, 2/1, reliable BBO partner.

What's your call and why? [/hv]

I rank

1. 2♥ = NAT. Slight underbid unless you are playing Gazzilli
2. 2N = NAT. Overbid.
3. 3♥ = NAT. Overbid,
4. Pass = NAT. Inadvisable, especially at MPs.

[SteveMoe]

2N. If I only bid 2♥, partner will play me for much less.

[kenrexford]

Heart-diamond two suiters are an Achille's heel. Strangely, one solution is to open a Roman 2H (5+H/4+C, intermediate), or 2D as the same thing (if allowed). That way, in this and many other auctions, you hace a built in solution for a lot of these patterns, a completely freed up 2C rebid. But, I digress.

 

My pick without that is 2H.

[mike777]

2N. If I only bid 2♥, partner will play me for much less.

 

 

Why? I mean with "much less" why would you not pass?

 

 

btw what do you play opener to have here?

[Cyberyeti]

Why? I mean with "much less" why would you not pass?

 

 

Because I might have a 4225 6 count, I'm not passing 1♥ or 2♦ with that

[kenrexford]

If Opener has a Rule of 20 opening, he could have as low as 10 HCP. If you consider this borderline, then your max for 2H, if that is possible, is 10. You need about 15 to make 3NT viable.

 

10 to 16 is a 7 point range.

6 to 10 is a 5 point range.

 

Logic seems to suggest that the person with the wider range should be the aggressive one.

[mike777]

Because I might have a 4225 6 count, I'm not passing 1♥ or 2♦ with that

 

ok then it seems you should be able to have this hand also which is the point.

 

 

Rexford makes a good point.

---

 

Whether you play old fashion style where 2d could be 14+ to say just short of an old fashion very strong j/s

 

 

or 10-16 range,,,,.... 2h seems fine.

 

Opener may have a problem rebid but not us. :)

[SteveMoe]

btw what do you play opener to have here?

11 to 17 with semibalanced and unbalanced hands as high as 15-17

5-5 in the reds is possible unless we are playing some gadget.

Picture/textbook 2N - shows 10-11 and inability to make a limit raise. Of course if the expected style is very light then 2♥ is best. 2♥ is what I do playing Precision.

[phoenix214]

As most have said - it depends more on your opening style than on anything else:

If openings are light then 2H, if opening is sound then 2N - I personaly go with 2H here, as I expect partner to open quite light

[Cyberyeti]

ok then it seems you should be able to have this hand also which is the point.

 

 

Rexford makes a good point.

---

 

Whether you play old fashion style where 2d could be 14+ to say just short of an old fashion very strong j/s

 

 

or 10-16 range,,,,.... 2h seems fine.

 

Opener may have a problem rebid but not us. :)

 

Never come across this old fashioned style, what do you do with a 1543/1552 12-13 count if playing this ?

 

The problem opener has is as to what he does over 2♥ with 15-16, if you'd bid 2N on this, he passes with a clear conscience, if you'd bid 2♥ he needs to have another go, which can lead to a right mess if you're minimum as it's very likely to be a misfit as well.

[mcphee]

Up to someone to show a bit of life and 2H doesn't do it. 2N is at least an attempt to reach game, it is imps.

[kenberg]

Never come across this old fashioned style, what do you do with a 1543/1552 12-13 count if playing this ?

 

The problem opener has is as to what he does over 2♥ with 15-16, if you'd bid 2N on this, he passes with a clear conscience, if you'd bid 2♥ he needs to have another go, which can lead to a right mess if you're minimum as it's very likely to be a misfit as well.

 

Although I bid 2H and you bid 2NT, I agree that the above is the issue. Opener, on the evidence so far, could have a ten count. No problem, he passes. And it is true, at least as I play, that he could have a 17 or 18 count. No problem, he bids again. The problem with my bid of 2H is that he might pass with a 15 or 16 count and game might be on. The problem that I see with 2NT is that he might raise to 3 on a 14 or 15 count and we may go down. It also seems to me that if partner has, say, 1=5=4=3 shape then this hand might play better in hearts.

 

Borderline hand are tough, and I think that this is borderline. I chose 2H, but I have no trouble agreeing it could be wrong.

[billw55]

OK, so I see a plurality for 2NT with a respectable minority for 2♥.

 

I was south and chose 2♥. This was passed out, and the two hands were:

 

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North's actual hand is remarkably similar to Cyberyeti's construction in the first reply, and game is pretty good. Ten tricks were made for +170, but 3NT was the right spot, reached by about 1/3 of the field. I was not very proud of my bidding, and felt that in particular I should have added value for the diamond spots after partner's call in that suit. I was aware that 2NT could work well, but also that it could work poorly when partner has a minimum without a spade card. -1 for pessimism I guess.

[Zelandakh]

Heart-diamond two suiters are an Achille's heel. Strangely, one solution is to open a Roman 2H (5+H/4+C, intermediate), or 2D as the same thing (if allowed). That way, in this and many other auctions, you hace a built in solution for a lot of these patterns, a completely freed up 2C rebid. But, I digress.

It would certainly seem strange to me to describe the 2♥ opening as Roman (or 5+♥, 4+♣) if it is a known "solution" to use it for this hand. Strange to the poit of MI in fact. Freeing up the 2♣ rebid is a standard part of playing Roman 2M openings - see for a well-known example Ben's 2/1 system.

[wank]

OK, so I see a plurality for 2NT with a respectable minority for 2♥.

 

I was south and chose 2♥. This was passed out, and the two hands were:

 

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North's actual hand is remarkably similar to Cyberyeti's construction in the first reply, and game is pretty good. Ten tricks were made for +170, but 3NT was the right spot, reached by about 1/3 of the field. I was not very proud of my bidding, and felt that in particular I should have added value for the diamond spots after partner's call in that suit. I was aware that 2NT could work well, but also that it could work poorly when partner has a minimum without a spade card. -1 for pessimism I guess.

 

there is no shame from missing game with 15 opposite 10, but partner doesn't have a 15 count. with all those pips his hand is worth more.` p needs to bid again.

[mycroft]

Offshape strong NTs are the bane of standard systems. You have to cater to them, somehow, but most of the system is designed around "partner won't have 15-17 semibalanced that can't upgrade to 18 very often". 2♥, which could be ♥xx-and-the-♣A, and could be this hand is hard to move over with this "slightly stronger than minimum, but could be much bigger".

 

I was going to bid 2NT, knowing that if I get passed in it, I really will want to have been in 2♥; and that if partner bids 3NT, I may still struggle. I wasn't going to bid 2♥ if you had bid 2NT and partner dropped a crappy 11 (you'll have to trust me on that, unfortunately :-). Maybe my field (which opens 11s-that-aren't-10s, and tends not to Rule-of-Anything) pushes me to the more aggressive call.

[Cyberyeti]

there is no shame from missing game with 15 opposite 10, but partner doesn't have a 15 count. with all those pips his hand is worth more.` p needs to bid again.

 

What do you suggest he bids ? he has nice intermediates but Qx/Ax and an indifferent suit with no club stop.