Rebid

[hrothgar]

MP

 

Indy. You hold

 

[hv=pc=n&s=s8hajt95daj8c6543&w=shdc&n=shdc&e=shdc]399|300[/hv]

 

The auction starts

 

(P) - 1♣ - (X) - 1♥

(1♠) - P - (P) - ???

 

What's your plan?

[wank]

3 clubs. invitational with clubs. seems like what i have.

 

perhaps hearts will score better at matchpoints but 2H would be too much of an underbid.

[Cyberyeti]

Abstain, would never in this world have bid 1♥. Prefer 2♥ fit or if that's not available XX.

[wank]

Abstain, would never in this world have bid 1♥. Prefer 2♥ fit or if that's not available XX.

 

too strong for 2H and redouble would just be gross with this shape

[Vampyr]

too strong for 2H and redouble would just be gross with this shape

 

What would you consider the best range for a 2♥ fit bid? Also, do you think it is best played as NF?

 

Thanks.

[1eyedjack]

too strong for 2H and redouble would just be gross with this shape

Aside from which, it is an Indy, so we are informed. You don't get to choose your pet system

[ggwhiz]

3♣, especially in an Indy.

 

Given partners pass over 1♠ our most likely games are 3nt followed by 5♣ and this keeps them both in play and with this shape 3♣ can easily outscore 1nt if that's where others land.

[wank]

What would you consider the best range for a 2♥ fit bid? Also, do you think it is best played as NF?

 

Thanks.

 

yes nf over a minor something like 6-9. over a major it can be forcing and unlimited.

[rmnka447]

3 ♣ for me, too.

 

Invitational, it also keeps all contracts in play.

[Cyberyeti]

Aside from which, it is an Indy, so we are informed. You don't get to choose your pet system

 

too strong for 2H and redouble would just be gross with this shape

 

Sorry, unfamiliar with the term, I don't actually play BBO so don't know how it works.

 

I'm used to playing a way where any hand of this strength redoubles, and bidding 1♥ denies this much.

 

This would be absolutely maximum for the NF 2♥ bid in my world, partner would only pass with 11-12 bal without 4♥. Can I miss game ? yes, but I prefer to bid 9 of my cards rather than 4 when I don't know that the next bid isn't 3/4♠.

[Stephen Tu]

I'm used to playing a way where any hand of this strength redoubles, and bidding 1♥ denies this much.

 

Wow really? You play 1h nf? I thought that went extinct 40+ years ago.

[Cyberyeti]

Wow really? You play 1h nf? I thought that went extinct 40+ years ago.

 

I didn't say it was NF, just that partner might decline to reopen in the face of oppos barraging on some hands where he's safe in the knowledge we've not missed anything.

[Stephen Tu]

I didn't say it was NF, just that partner might decline to reopen in the face of oppos barraging on some hands where he's safe in the knowledge we've not missed anything.

 

 

Still pretty weird though to play 1H limited range, even if played 1RF. I don't see why partner reopening has anything to do with it. If we are stronger, WE are the ones reopening or doing something over the opponent's bids, if partner is passing. If you are forced to redouble with all 10+, the idea is that you are faced with introducing new suit at 3 level or possibly higher if the opps barrage to 2S or whatever. This is worse than getting at least one of your suits in at 1 level, then you get to describe other feature of your hand later (like with this hand clubs), instead it's 2S to you and you haven't even shown hearts yet, and if your redouble also includes stronger hands you can't stop at 3 level.

 

Most people play 1H unlimited. Super modern set, many are going to transfer schemes starting with redouble.

 

 

[nige1]

[hv=pc=n&s=s8hajt95daj8c6543&d=w&a=P1CX1H1SPP?]100|200|

Indy. Plan?

[/hv]

Assuming 5-card majors, I rank

1. Double = T/O.
2. 2♣ = NAT.
3. 3♣ = NAT.

[kenrexford]

Without commenting on the merits of the style, if 1H was limited to below 10, then 2S stands out now as "grown up because I have the right stiff."

 

In the real world, maybe 2S should be the same essential thing. I mean, 1H as a start, followed by 2S, sounds unbalanced, so why not short spades?

[mike777]

double seems normal now, to be honest no other bid comes to mind.

 

 

1h seems perfect last round, no problem yet.

 

 

I note I did not xx last round so I totally agree with the bidding so far.

[Laocoon166]

Dbl seems obvious to me. OP doesn't say whether playing mandatory support xs or not however

[yunling]

Double. 3C usually show 5C&4H for me.

[Cyberyeti]

Wow really? You play 1h nf? I thought that went extinct 40+ years ago.

 

Truly bizarrely we came across somebody who played this in today's (very minor) national pairs final (Corwen for UK people). His partner didn't, meaning they played 1♥-2 with 3N on their way.

[Winstonm]

3C - wtp?

[MrAce]

1 ♥ showing less than 10 generation gone long time ago I thought.

 

But this hand is not strong for fit jump if not a textbook example. So I am with Cyber there and would use it if agreed. Unless of course you are playing it preemptive like Wank does. Anyway, I think 3♣ is clear now.

[kenberg]

The consensus seems to be 3C and I agree. Partner surely has four or more clubs: Even in an indy I expect he would double to show three card support if he had it, or else bid 2H on three if he doesn't think support doubles are on. So he has at most six major suit cards, therefore at least seven minor suit cards, and he should not be opening 1C if he has four diamonds and three clubs. So he has four, or more, clubs. He can trust that I know this, so he will not play me for five clubs on this call. Note: Playing indy, or pickup, or whatever, I assume that partner is neither a genius nor an idiot, and I hope he assumes the same about me. And I assume partner would have shown three card heart support if it existed. These assumptions are sometimes wrong but I think the game goes best if we so assume.

 

This is a very good hand for my 3C bid, so my only worry is that it is not sufficiently encouraging. If it goes wrong, I suspect that failing to go on is how it goes wrong. In which case I accept the blame. But I don't see any other good alternative. I have no interest in defending 1SX, and I think 2S overstates my values and and underdescribes my shape. If partner, over my 3C, bids 3H I will assume he has something like Kx and extras, and I will raise to 4. If instead he bids 3D I will assume he has five clubs and a little extra, so i will raise to 5C. If he bids 3NT I will leave him there. If he passes and takes eleven tricks, i will refrain from asking him why he passed.

 

All in all, I think 3C is not perfect but the best choice.

 

Further note: I think Goren played that all hands of 10 points or more started with a redouble. I can be an old-fashioned guy but that is overdoing it. This hand shows why. Suppose you redouble and 1S is passed back to you. You no longer have any idea of partner's heart holding. It could be 1 or 4. And since you know nothing of his heart length, you cannot infer he has four clubs. Anything you do is a guess. I think it is very safe to say that the vast majority of players now treat 1H here as a forcing (If the next call over 1H is a pass) and natural call.The strength is unlimited.