Shapely hand

[roey]

Should a hand with 0445 shape and with 11HCP be opened in 1st seat?

If so , what is the rebid following a 1S response?

[manudude03]

I am absolutely opening it. A bit will depend on suit quality as to whether I open 1C or 1D. I am rebidding 2C either way.

[Zelandakh]

Hi roey and welcome to the BBO forums. As with manudude, I would normally expect to open it. The choice between 1♣ and 1♦ depends on a few factors, primarily system and suit quality.

[rmnka447]

Welcome to the boards!

 

It depends on the quality of the 11 HCP (i.e. QTs) and the minor suits for me. If I'm looking at ♠ - ♥ KJ42 ♦ KJ63 ♣ QJ543, I'm passing. But with ♠ - ♥ 8642 ♦ KQxx ♣ KQJ75, I'm always opening. Generally, I'm not opening hands with 1 QT or less, using my judgment on 1 1/2 QT hands and normally opening most 2+ QT hands.

 

Another consideration that impacts the above is "What will your rebid be if a 1 ♠ (your void) is bid?" The answer to this question can affect both whether you open and what suit you open. With a good ♣ suit, you can rebid 2 ♣ over 1 ♠, so may be a tad more aggressive in opening -- say ♠ - ♥ Kxxx ♦ Qxxx ♣ KQJxx. Holding something like ♠ - ♥ Kxxx ♦ KQJx ♣ Qxxxx, you could open 1 ♦ and rebid 2 ♣. But with something ♠ - ♥ KQJx ♦ Kxxx ♣ Qxxxx, you may pass because opening 1 ♣ and rebidding 2 ♣ is onerous on such a poor suit. And if you opening 1 ♦ instead and rebidding 2 ♣, a preference by partner to 2 ♦ may prove horrendous.

[Phil]

Spades is important to have here. But, yeah I'd open it because 5m may be a viable spot.

[nige1]

Should a hand with 0445 shape and with 11HCP be opened in 1st seat?

If so , what is the rebid following a 1S response?

With rebiddable ♣s, I would always open 1♣ . Otherwise I might be tempted to pass.

[ggwhiz]

A reason not to open is fear of spade bids by your partner but if you pass and THEY bid spades you can be shut out of the bidding or come back in at much greater risk. I don't open as light as most but do step out on hands with short spades. Land on my head sometimes but at least I'm participating.

 

The only things you can't do after partner responds 1♠ is rebid 1nt with this shape or reverse (ie. open 1♣ and rebid a higher ranking suit, 2♦/♥) so plan accordingly on minor suit quality as has been suggested.

[Caitlynne]

In general, I would say yes provided there are not serious flaws like a very weak suit or two suits with unsupported lower honors. (That is, not all 11 HCP are equal!) I would surely open void, Axxx, KQxx, QTxxx but I would likely pass a hand like void Jxxx, AKQx, Jxxxx.

 

You correctly note that there will be a rebid problem. I would NOT rebid 1NT after a 1S response. (I think it is okay and usually best as the least of evils - albeit surely undesirable - to rebid 1NT when holding a singleton spade after a 1S response.) There are two reasons: (1) the 1NT rebid shows 12 to 14 HCP and you have 11 HCP (indeed, I almost never open 1444 distributions featuring 11 HCP for the same reason); and (2) rebidding 1NT on a void is bad since responder will surely rebid spades with 6 card length and, in some circumstances, might rebid 2S with a good 5 card suit.

 

Instead, I would probably open 1D and rebid 2C - this being the rare exceptional situation when I would show two suits in non-natural order (i.e., not bidding the longest suit first). This means that I also would tend to pass these 11 HCP hands when holding a weak diamond suit - a hand like void, AKxx, Jxxx, QJTxx - in that I do not want to encourage a diamond opening lead from partner if we defend.

[Finanzier]

I open. An extra chance is the placement of a penalty - due to partner.

[mike777]

Should a hand with 0445 shape and with 11HCP be opened in 1st seat?

If so , what is the rebid following a 1S response?

 

 

 

I have zero issues passing this hand zero. I note there is zero evidence of a problem.

 

 

fwiw if we agree to open this hand then forced to open 1d and rebid 2c

[lycier]

Should a hand with 0445 shape and with 11HCP be opened in 1st seat?

If so , what is the rebid following a 1S response?

 

Hello, welcome to BBO forums.

I pretty understand your problem, of course, it is a well-known problem. You meant that when hold a hand with 0445 shapes (zero card ♠ and 5-card ♣) in the 11hcp hand, whether open at first seat?

 

In fact, this is a very difficult problem in the world indeed. I believe almost people are willing to open at fist seat, however there are different methods for minors in the minors 4-5 distributions of hand.

Of course, there are two basic schools.

 

- First

They always advocate to open 1♣, after responding 1♠, will rebid 2♣ because they would like to open longer minor suit for ever, even many USA experts very like it.

 

- Second

They usually regard this hand as a exception. I like this method.

Opening 1♦ or 1♣, it depends on power destribution :

1- If HCP in ♦ is equal to or is more than HCP in ♣, they will open 1♦ then 2♣.

2- If HCP in ♣ is more than in ♦, they would open 1♣ then 2♣.

 

Here I can offer two classic hands, please think over and over.

 

- Hand-1

 

[hv=pc=n&n=sht876dk986cakj87?]133|100[/hv]

 

- Hand-2

[hv=pc=n&n=sht765dakj9ck9875?]133|100[/hv]

 

Now, what would you open respectively in the Hand-1 and Hand-2?

 

Hoping we can go on discussing in further.

[mathboy]

Always pass with too many Queens and Jacks.

[bluechip10]

Should a hand with 0445 shape and with 11HCP be opened in 1st seat?

If so , what is the rebid following a 1S response?

 

Rebid is 2♣. If you bid a new suit, you will be reversing. That shows 17-21. If pard wants to continue to describe his hand, you will too. There are other advantages to your opening rather than passing. you force the opps into difficult defensive bidding.

[noahapteke]

100% should open. If you get the likely 1♠ response after 1♣, you have the easiest 2♣ rebid in the world. Often find that in those auctions you have some number of NT on and you opening the bidding will help you get there. If all your values lie in hearts then you could even consider opening 1H with 4

[noahapteke]

Always pass with too many Queens and Jacks.

 

I completely disagree in 3rd and 4th I'd open almost all 11 counts and in 1st and 2nd any 11 count with a five card suit should be opened even if you have singleton honors

[Zelandakh]

I completely disagree in 3rd and 4th I'd open almost all 11 counts and in 1st and 2nd any 11 count with a five card suit should be opened even if you have singleton honors

2nd in playing 2/1: ♠K ♥Q32 ♦QJ32 ♣QJ432. What is your choice?

[gszes]

1. void A543 K5432 A543

2. void AKQ2 Q5432 5432

3. void KQJ3 QJ432 Q432

 

HCP alone are not the answer and being able to conjure up a bid sounds nice in theory but unfortunately not all the hands belong to us and in competitive situations your p may decide to x and if you have chosen to open a hand like (3) above you will definitely feel some heat palpitations while deciding to leave it in or not.

 

Rebid Having some defense is nice but does your hand have a rebid problem if p bids (the highly anticipated 1s)? If so It may not be such a good idea to open. Hand 2 has some defense but is it a sound idea to open 1d and follow with 2c? The 2 suits are truly gory. Hand 2 might be better if you decide to fudge with a 1h opening bid and at least get in a lead director.

 

Hand 1 has defense a couple of reasonable suits and an easy rebid sequence over 1s. It will not work all of the time but there is enough there to make a reasonable 1d opening bid.

 

I admit to abusing the pass card more than most but the above guidelines have worked well for me over the eons:)

[mike777]

Passing these hands with short spades in first and second seat is a no brainer.

[mike777]

Hello, welcome to BBO forums.

I pretty understand your problem, of course, it is a well-known problem. You meant that when hold a hand with 0445 shapes (zero card ♠ and 5-card ♣) in the 11hcp hand, whether open at first seat?

 

In fact, this is a very difficult problem in the world indeed. I believe almost people are willing to open at fist seat, however there are different methods for minors in the minors 4-5 distributions of hand.

Of course, there are two basic schools.

 

- First

They always advocate to open 1♣, after responding 1♠, will rebid 2♣ because they would like to open longer minor suit for ever, even many USA experts very like it.

 

- Second

They usually regard this hand as a exception. I like this method.

Opening 1♦ or 1♣, it depends on power destribution :

1- If HCP in ♦ is equal to or is more than HCP in ♣, they will open 1♦ then 2♣.

2- If HCP in ♣ is more than in ♦, they would open 1♣ then 2♣.

 

Here I can offer two classic hands, please think over and over.

 

- Hand-1

 

[hv=pc=n&n=sht876dk986cakj87?]133|100[/hv]

 

- Hand-2

[hv=pc=n&n=sht765dakj9ck9875?]133|100[/hv]

 

Now, what would you open respectively in the Hand-1 and Hand-2?

 

Hoping we can go on discussing in further.

 

 

 

easy pass, no problem yet.