Is this slam biddable?

[Stephen Tu]

After eliminating, my gut tells me it's right to run the club queen!

 

Yeah that seems best.

[Phil]

After eliminating, my gut tells me it's right to run the club queen!

 

Yes nice. You only lose to stiff K on?

[PhilKing]

Yes nice. You only lose to stiff K on?

 

K2 and K7 too, but that's it, I think.

[Vampyr]

Its possible But I'll never know. I can only assume my partner forgot to

add points for length in the heart suit which would have raised it enough

to open 1♥ Anyway as you've seen,North elected to pass over the 2♥bid.

 

This is a little bit arse-backwards. A weak two normally promises six cards, so there are no length points involved.

[Phil]

K2 and K7 too, but that's it, I think.

 

Edit, nonsense

[mikestar13]

The field bid a bad slam that happened to make. So what? You will gain more often when the field bids a bad slam that fails. A 1♥ opening has a better chance than 2♥ to get to a good slam if one were available. It also is more likely to induce opponents to take undue liberties in spades, which on the actual hands would be a good thing.

[P_Marlowe]

I am surprised. The void and more than half my HCP outside my suit are serious flaws, and each alone may well persuade me not to open a weak two.

 

Two aces and 10 HCP are each dealbreakers on their own.

 

So I would not, in this lifetime on this planet, open a weak 2♥ with this hand, and I thought that my views on the matter were totally mainstream.

 

(To be fair there are few 2♥ bidders in this thread, so perhaps just these two posters are very eccentric).

I did not claim, I would have opened 2H, ... I would open 1H.

But for me this is basically a matter of style / partnership agreement,

e.g. you are used to play intermediate weak twos.

Playing in an pickup, ... opening this hand as a weak two is plainly stupid,

because you are too far away from mainstream.

 

With kind regards

Marlowe

[661_Pete]

I don't like the slam on this deal: besides the ♥ finesse you could easily have two ♣ losers. Yes I know it's infuriating when you end up in the sensible four, by whatever route, and lots of other tables bid the optimistic six and all the outstanding honours are onside.....

 

S*** happens....

 

Better luck with your next potential slam.

[kenrexford]

I agree that 2H is a poor opening. However, let's tweak the deal. Opener has a stiff spade instead of boid. Responder has Kxxx rather than QJxx in hearts. Opener has the diamong King rather than Ace, Responder with AQx. Responder has AJ10 in clubs. Now, are there possible tools?

 

Tweak #1. Opener switches the 3C and 3H Ogust responses, such that 3H is bust, 3C good hand bad suit. By definition, 3C then shows something outside. This tweak gives Responder room to ask what that is, bynext relaying 3D (tweak #2).

 

After 3D, Opener has 6 options at or below 4H. Most allow continuations. The three highest (4-bids) can show a spade feature, with 4min also showing shortness there. 3S and 3N as club/diamond feature, shortness somewhere, gives 1-up as asking. 3H as no shortness, not just spade feature(s).

 

So, on this hypo hand, after 2H-2N, 3C-3D, Opener buds 3N (diamond feature, shortness somewhere). Opener asks where (4C) and learns of spade shortness (4H).

 

Having come so far, 4S as "tell me more" to induce a 5C "Queen here" is not that tough to work out.

[lycier]

2♥ is a lousy opening.

However , if 6♥ as a final contract, it shouldn't be a qualified contract since the probability of finesses twice is 21.6%.

[PhilG007]

I've just looked at the traveller for this board and I could not believe my eyes.

The pairs that were in 6♥ had opened 1♥,some (crazy) Wests had opened 4♥

while a couple of Wests had actually decided that the hand wasn't worth opening and passed(!) (criminal)

At Tables where 1♥ was opened, the opponents competed in spades and it became a battle of the

majors resulting in either a♥ slam being bid (and luckily making) or 5/6 spades being bid,doubled

and going down minus 4/5 tricks. All in all this was a diverse hand that clearly showed different levels

of ability,judgement and dare I say it,intelligence :)

[Zelandakh]

I agree that 2H is a poor opening. However, let's tweak the deal. Opener has a stiff spade instead of boid. Responder has Kxxx rather than QJxx in hearts. Opener has the diamong King rather than Ace, Responder with AQx. Responder has AJ10 in clubs. Now, are there possible tools?

Any chance of making a diagram Ken?

[manudude03]

I've just looked at the traveller for this board and I could not believe my eyes.

The pairs that were in 6♥ had opened 1♥,some (crazy) Wests had opened 4♥

while a couple of Wests had actually decided that the hand wasn't worth opening and passed(!) (criminal)

At Tables where 1♥ was opened, the opponents competed in spades and it became a battle of the

majors resulting in either a♥ slam being bid (and luckily making) or 5/6 spades being bid,doubled

and going down minus 4/5 tricks. All in all this was a diverse hand that clearly showed different levels

of ability,judgement and dare I say it,intelligence :)

 

Well, I would say pass is better than 2H. I've experimented opening 4 on these hands before, but found it really only worked 3rd seat NV.

[PhilKing]

On the face of it slam is rather poor so it is widely assumed that bidding 6♥ is a mistake.

 

However, slam bidding is just not always that simple. Say the auction starts 1♥-(2♠)-3♠ it's easy to see how the auction can get a little out of control and no pair can get every hand right - there will always be some guesswork involved (for instance, give West the club jack and slam is now pretty reasonable). And as discussed above, slam is not as bad as some people seem to think unless you don't know how to handle the clubs, which in isolation are a huge favourite to play for one loser and with a decent count on the opponent's distribution may become a certainty.

 

But the real clincher is that it might have been correct to bid slam - we cannot tell without seeing the whole hand and there is a greater than zero chance that Phil007 has overlooked a subtle inferences. Imagine the auction at some tables started 1♥-(2♠ weak)-3♠-(pass). What inference might we draw from South's pass? The inference is that South has a poor holding in hearts - probably Kx. And besides, the weak jump makes the finesse a solid favourite from the outset. But the bottom line is that it is futile to calculate the percentages for being in slam without considering the whole picture.

 

The very top players tend to be pretty aggressive in the slam zone and I think that some of them would be in slam on this deal.

[Cyberyeti]

I would echo what Phil King says, I think a lot of people will bid a slam here due to inability to stop particularly with competition. A slam which is a J off being good is very difficult to get right either way.

[johnu]

I would echo what Phil King says, I think a lot of people will bid a slam here due to inability to stop particularly with competition. A slam which is a J off being good is very difficult to get right either way.

 

A common theme in these forums is for posters to ask how to get to a slam that is

 

1) Odds against, or even terrible, but make due to a fortunate lie of the cards

2) Excellent, but depend on having a key J or 10 that wouldn't really affect the hand valuation

[neilkaz]

A common theme in these forums is for posters to ask how to get to a slam that is

 

1) Odds against, or even terrible, but make due to a fortunate lie of the cards

2) Excellent, but depend on having a key J or 10 that wouldn't really affect the hand valuation

 

Yes, agreed completely. Here's the traveler. http://www.bridgebase.com/myhands/hands.php?traveller=4113-1463468497-24895865&username=philg007 14 of 39 pairs bid the slam. 12 were allowed to play and 2 had opps sac 6♠.

 

There have been some surprising comments by some good players here in this thread regarding ♠ competition. While I didn't check all 39 hands, I checked most of them and in no case did some wild person bid 2♠

over a 1♥ opening. Apparently making a WJO with a 5 card suit and 3 HCP vul is too much even on BBO! The ♠ competition came later typically after a 2/1 from responder.(Not everyone plays J2NT or would use it here).

 

As for the weak 2 opening, like many I clearly prefer 1♥. Of course bidding 4♥ over 2♥ is a must as it should usually make and on a bad day the opps make 4♠.

 

Those who follow the Law will note than it breaks down here as it can at high levels. There are 21 trumps but only 19 tricks, and the flat lie of the ♦ suit has to factor into that.

[kenrexford]

Any chance of making a diagram Ken?

I don't know how to do it on my cell phone.

[PhilKing]

Yes, agreed completely. Here's the traveler. http://www.bridgebase.com/myhands/hands.php?traveller=4113-1463468497-24895865&username=philg007 14 of 39 pairs bid the slam. 12 were allowed to play and 2 had opps sac 6♠.

 

There have been some surprising comments by some good players here in this thread regarding ♠ competition. While I didn't check all 39 hands, I checked most of them and in no case did some wild person bid 2♠

over a 1♥ opening. Apparently making a WJO with a 5 card suit and 3 HCP vul is too much even on BBO! The ♠ competition came later typically after a 2/1 from responder.(Not everyone plays J2NT or would use it here).

 

As for the weak 2 opening, like many I clearly prefer 1♥. Of course bidding 4♥ over 2♥ is a must as it should usually make and on a bad day the opps make 4♠.

 

Those who follow the Law will note than it breaks down here as it can at high levels. There are 21 trumps but only 19 tricks, and the flat lie of the ♦ suit has to factor into that.

 

Only surprising if one somehow does not realise that the points were theoretical rather than pertaining to the actual layout. The point is that actions taken by the opponents are far from irrelevant and under certain circumstances the slam could be odds on.