Is this slam biddable?

[PhilG007]

Playing in a recent tournament with an unknown partner,this deal came up :-

[hv=pc=n&w=shat8432da87cq864&e=sa6hqj65dkqtcat53&d=w&v=b&b=4&a=2hp4hppp]266|200[/hv]

Partner opened a weak 2♥ as dealer and I bid 4♥ as a pre-emptive raise.

Partner made 12 tricks as the K♥ was onside. I thought it would be a good result for us.

Imagine my chagrin when I saw almost 70% of the field had either found the♥ slam or had doubled the opponents 4♠ for a heavy penalty.

Needless to say it was a lousy result,a near bottom in fact. What happened there?

Whose fault was that? Who was the villain? We only have a combined total of 24 points so we are well short of the slam zone.

Comments please.

[wanoff]

It's biddable if you don't waste a complete level of bidding by opening 2♥.

Do you want to be in slam? No.

[gwnn]

You need to find the HK as well as the cK (or something in clubs anyway). It's not a good slam.

 

As for the bidding, west is too strong for a weak two and has a weakish suit. 1H is preferable, after which east will go to 4H (in a few rounds).

[Cyberyeti]

This is a 1♥ opener not a 2♥ opener.

 

Agree with 4♥ over 2♥.

 

It's not a good slam although not terrible, but you don't want to be in it.

[rhm]

It's biddable if you don't waste a complete level of bidding by opening 2♥.

Do you want to be in slam? No.

Why do you want a slam biddable if you do not want to be in slam escapes me.

I wish all my slams, I do not want be in, were unbiddable.

It would save me a lot of headaches.

 

Rainer Herrmann

[wanoff]

Why do you want a slam biddable if you do not want to be in slam escapes me.

I wish all my slams, I do not want be in, were unbiddable.

It would save me a lot of headaches.

 

Rainer Herrmann

 

It was biddable by 75% which hopefully wouldn't include me.

We'd bid 1♥-2NT-4♥ which shows a very weak opener with a void spade.

[Cyberyeti]

Why do you want a slam biddable if you do not want to be in slam escapes me.

I wish all my slams, I do not want be in, were unbiddable.

It would save me a lot of headaches.

 

Rainer Herrmann

 

Because it's unbiddable opposite similar hands where slam is decent like where A♠ is K or Q and clubs are AJ10x or cold like xxx, KQxx, xx, AKJx.

[Zelandakh]

A better question is to ask how to avoid this slam while not ruling slam out completely, for example with:

 

1♥ = 5+ hearts

... - 2NT = GF raise

3♣ = min + shortage

... - 3♦ = relay

3♥ = void

... - 3♠ = relay

3NT = spade void

... - 4♣ = club control?

4♥ = no

 

It is not the number of points that is the issue here. Change the ♠A to the ♣K and slam looks a lot better despite Responder having a point less.

[1eyedjack]

I bid 4♥ as a pre-emptive raise.

What everybody else said. Only if asked by opponents I would not describe East's 4H raise as "pre-emptive". It may in practice have some pre-emptive effect, but the description conveys different connotations. Generally pre-emptive bids are not made in a full expectation of making.

[Vampyr]

What everybody else said. Only if asked by opponents I would not describe East's 4H raise as "pre-emptive". It may in practice have some pre-emptive effect, but the description conveys different connotations. Generally pre-emptive bids are not made in a full expectation of making.

 

I agree that pre-emptive is not a good description, but game will be only so-so opposite many hands that are actually a weak 2♥.

[P_Marlowe]

Hi,

 

The weak two opening is heavy, 2 Aces and a void.

Nobody would complain, if the hand would get opened with 1H.

2H is not wrong, but it is certainly not your mainstream weak

two either.

 

With kind regards

Marlowe

[rmnka447]

Once West opens 2 ♥, I think it's virtually impossible to bid slam. The tools are just not available for East to get enough information to visualize 12 tricks are possible. If East uses a forcing 2 NT, West would reply 3 ♥ (good hand, bad suit) playing Ogust or 3 ♦ playing rebids show a feature. Now what? There's just not enough to do anything but for East to bid 4 ♥.

 

So, the slams probably are being bid after a 1 ♥ opening. One thing that will do is make it harder for East to envision that West has as minimum values as are held. After a basic Jacoby 2 NT, it could go something like this:

 

1 ♥ - 2 NT(Jacoby)

3 ♠(shortness) - 4 ♣*

4 ♦* - 4 ♥(waiting)

4 ♠*(void)

 

* - cues

 

and now East may will push toward slam figuring West has to have something more in ♣ to open.

 

For me, it would be a close call, but I'd probably open 1 ♥ as it satisfies Rule of 20 and has 2 QTs. I don't have a problem if my partner held the hand and opens 2 ♥ though.

[ggwhiz]

 

Imagine my chagrin when I saw almost 70% of the field had either found the♥ slam or had doubled the opponents 4♠ for a heavy penalty.

 

 

What was the split?

 

I'm never getting to slam and I bet that those who did are not on the leaderboard at the end of the day.

 

However I'm opening 1♥, not 2 and consider it clear cut (just our style). That allows them to find spades to their regret and I never stop them from bidding the suit when they belong there just because I opened 2♥ instead of 1.

[Vampyr]

2H is not wrong, but it is certainly not your mainstream weak

two either.

 

 

For me, it would be a close call ... I don't have a problem if my partner held the hand and opens 2 ♥ though.

 

I am surprised. The void and more than half my HCP outside my suit are serious flaws, and each alone may well persuade me not to open a weak two.

 

Two aces and 10 HCP are each dealbreakers on their own.

 

So I would not, in this lifetime on this planet, open a weak 2♥ with this hand, and I thought that my views on the matter were totally mainstream.

 

(To be fair there are few 2♥ bidders in this thread, so perhaps just these two posters are very eccentric).

[johnu]

The weak two opening is heavy, 2 Aces and a void.

Nobody would complain, if the hand would get opened with 1H.

2H is not wrong, but it is certainly not your mainstream weak

two either.

 

I disagree with the "heavy" description. I prefer to have 4 first round controls when I open a weak 2 so partner can evaluate properly. :)

[PhilG007]

What was the split?

 

I'm never getting to slam and I bet that those who did are not on the leaderboard at the end of the day.

 

However I'm opening 1♥, not 2 and consider it clear cut (just our style). That allows them to find spades to their regret and I never stop them from bidding the suit when they belong there just because I opened 2♥ instead of 1.

For the curious this was the full deal:-

[hv=pc=n&s=sk87542hk9dj93ck2&w=shat8432da87cq864&n=sqjt93h7d6542cj97&e=sa6hqj65dkqtcat53&d=w&v=b&b=4&a=2hp4hppp]399|300[/hv]

As can be seen the opponents have a big fit in spades which I had suspected and was the reason I jumped to 4♥ to

make it more obstructive to South. I don't know what other players did in my seat but it was clear

East must have either passed or only bid 3♥ which could have allowed South to compete in spades

In the end I just had to put it down to posterity as one that got away. The tournament was Rock Around The Clock(1) 5/17/16 and the

board number was 4 The traveller can be found by accessing the tournament archives.

[hrothgar]

I don't know what other players did in my seat but it was clear

East must have either passed or only bid 3♥ which could have allowed South to compete in spades

 

following a 2♥ opening, either passing or bidding 3♠ seems unthinkable.

 

I expect that you are seeing North bidding a weak 2♠ over a 1♥ opening

[PhilG007]

following a 2♥ opening, either passing or bidding 3♠ seems unthinkable.

 

I expect that you are seeing North bidding a weak 2♠ over a 1♥ opening

Its possible But I'll never know. I can only assume my partner forgot to

add points for length in the heart suit which would have raised it enough

to open 1♥ Anyway as you've seen,North elected to pass over the 2♥bid.

[hrothgar]

Its possible But I'll never know.

 

I believe that this translates as "I am too lazy to look at the auctions at the other tables"

[Phil]

Opening 2H is not bridge.

 

If I had the cJ I'd love being in slam but without it slam is below par. We need the hK on and not cKJx on our left. Or a good set of eyes.

[Stephen Tu]

A much better question would be what's the best auction to stay out of slam if 1h is opened, while being able to get there when West has the ck in addition. Or ckxx and 4 diamonds. It may not be possible to get these right consistently without a relay system. And relay is likely to get disrupted by a spade barrage.

[Stephen Tu]

Opening 2H is not bridge.

 

If I had the cJ I'd love being in slam but without it slam is below par. We need the hK on and not cKJx on our left. Or a good set of eyes.

 

Eh? Isn't ckjx over the Q making? The best line is low to cq, then finesse against cj if cq lost to ck, isn't it?

 

 

[Phil]

Eh? Isn't ckjx over the Q making? The best line is low to cq, then finesse against cj if cq lost to ck, isn't it?

 

Yes i think youre right depending on other things. You've got an endplay after stripping the pointed suits and playing cA, c catering to Kx off but losing to KJx/Kjxx/Kjxxx off.

 

So I think you're right unless LHO is turning up with a lot of non club cards.

 

And it doesn't change the fact slam is below par.

[PhilKing]

Yes i think youre right depending on other things. You've got an endplay after stripping the pointed suits and playing cA, c catering to Kx off (and Kxx) but losing to KJx/Kjxx/Kjxxx off.

 

So I think you're right unless LHO is turning up with a lot of non club cards.

 

And it doesn't change the fact slam is below par.

 

After eliminating, my gut tells me it's right to run the club queen!

[manudude03]

Without intervention, I would say 1H-2N-3S-4C-4D-4H-P is a pretty good auction. As for how N/S get into the bidding, my best guess would be south overcalling 2S after it goes 1H-2C.