??? after partner doubles a preempt

[silvr bull]

Matchpoints. Both Vul. Good partner, but unknown opps. What would you do?

 

[hv=pc=n&s=sjt63hq9dkt53c642&d=w&v=b&b=4&a=3ddp]133|200[/hv]

[nullve]

Pass (LoTT)

[mr1303]

Pass might work, but I prefer not to defend with a clear alternative. Partner has implied spades so I bid them.

[kenberg]

3S.

 

If we give W seven diamonds to the AQJ that probably is enough for his bid. That leaves 30 high card points in the other three suits and I have 3 of them. I expect E to take some tricks. I'm going with 3S and hoping I can make it.

[ggwhiz]

Takeout doubles are for taking out unless you are sure.

 

Partner will understand when 3♠ doesn't work but not when pass doesn't and nothing says they can't have a big hand that makes game opposite this.

[rmnka447]

3 ♠. Partner is marked with ♦ shortness, so may not have more than a minimum opening hand. If so, points are about even between the two sides with the stronger opponent hand behind partner. So I'm making the "normal" response of 3 ♠.

 

I'd only consider passing if I thought we were behind and wanted to take a shot at a top late in the session.

[nullve]

Takeout doubles are for taking out unless you are sure.

A literal translation of 'takeout double' into Norwegian is either 'ta-ut-dobling' (never used) or 'uttaksdobling' (sometimes used). The common translation, however, is 'opplysende dobling', the literal translation of which into English is 'enlightening double'. So maybe takeout doubles are supposed to enlighten, not to be taken out.

[msjennifer]

Without the D-K10xx ,the bid is 3S and even with it the bid is same? 3NT might be cold .And there is no surety that 3S will be passed by partner.The best way was told by one of club level players is" take a pause and bid a slow 3 Spade".Pass may or may not work out well,who knows?

[MRTRUB44]

When I was starting out at bridge, my teacher told me that a double of a preempt was usually for penalty. Now it is often a takeout. My bid would depend very much on the partnership agreement.

[1eyedjack]

Without the D-K10xx ,the bid is 3S and even with it the bid is same? 3NT might be cold .And there is no surety that 3S will be passed by partner.The best way was told by one of club level players is" take a pause and bid a slow 3 Spade".Pass may or may not work out well,who knows?

 

Leaving aside the banter about the hesitation, the main problem I have with this analysis is that if 3N is cold, bidding 3S, in tempo or otherwise, is not going to get you there. The only route to a cold 3N is if you bid it yourself now over the double. Which I have half a mind to do. Certainly it could go spectacularly wrong. But if 3S is going down anyway, all you really have to worry about is a double, while if 3N is making the upside is huge.

[mcphee]

I do not expect partner to have a minimum hand, after all this is the 3 level. Partner may have 4-4-1-4 hand and a decent, what say 13? KQxx Axxx x Axxx facing that you are life and death to make and likely fail in 3. Is that a hand you would dble 3D with, I would, besides I have a prepared excuse when things go wrong,(sorry thought they opened 2D).

 

I have to vote for 3S, who knows we might even make 4.

[PhilG007]

I have a 10 loser hand and my diamond holding would be

totally useless underneath the ♦bidder in a spade contract.

Its a close decision but I would pass and try to defeat the 3♦

contract. If it backfired I would hold my hands up and apologise.

[spade7]

When I was starting out at bridge, my teacher told me that a double of a preempt was usually for penalty. Now it is often a takeout. My bid would depend very much on the partnership agreement.

How many decades ago was that? Doubles of preempts have been takeout for a while now.

[notproven]

3♠.

Since partner may have a long strong suit with extras outside (say 19 HCP and AKJ10xxx in clubs or hearts), pass is too much of a unilateral position. I do have sympathy for 3NT, because that rates to make as well if partner has that strong a hand.

This is why players stretch to pre-empt: the opponents are often reduced to guessing because they have no clearcut action. But, if I knew the opponents (we don't in this example), I'd be more inclined to pass some joker who is known to be hyperactive.

[bluechip10]

Your diamonds are basically useless unless LHO leads the A. Partner probably has the equivalent of 17 points minimum. One or no dia. Probably plays better in spades than 3NT. Last, if you feel you are behind in your MP game, bid 4SP. 3SP is probably a plus score. If my pard plays a solid game like I do, then I bid 4SP and play the pants off the hand.

[akwoo]

A more interesting question: What if your diamonds were KT98 instead?

[mikestar13]

3♠, make the diamonds KT98 and I pass.

[jogs]

Matchpoints, I pass. Expect to beat 3♦X over half the time.

IMPs, 3♠. Don't expect to beat this over 70% of the time.

[Phil]

I would pass - we may not a 44 spade fit and we don't have tricks for NT.

[silvr bull]

[hv=pc=n&s=sjt63hq9dkt53c642&w=sq5h6daqj9742cq87&n=sk82ha74d86cakj95&e=sa974hkjt8532dct3&d=w&v=b&b=4&a=3ddp3sppp]399|300[/hv]

 

I ducked the opening H lead in hopes my HQ would be an entry to hand. Then the opps reminded me again about the power of a crossruff. :angry: After the hand, partner said I should pass 3DX. My view is that the double was OK but risky, and Lady Luck was not on our side. Thanks for the comments.

[1eyedjack]

If it is any consolation, you are 3 off even if you rise with Ace in dummy.

 

Ironically, I know that it is resulting, but my speculative suggestion that an admittedly risky 3N response may pay off does well on this hand.

[notproven]

Partner's last bid ("you should have passed") is forcing to a new partner.

The double was acceptable, but risky. Your bid of 3♠ was certainly reasonable. It didn't work out.

[notproven]

Partner's last bid ("you should have passed") is forcing to a new partner.

The double was acceptable but risky. The 3♠ bid was reasonable. It didn't work out.

[helene_t]

Partner's double was obvious. He has no non-ridicolous alternatives.

 

I would absolutely pass. I know that this is borderline for many good players, but not for me.

[gszes]

our hand offers little offense but with 1 and even possible 2.5 tricks we do not need the worlds fair from p to set this 1 trick. This is too dangerous at IMPS but at MP I would not be surprised if we set this at least 1 70& of the time for a ton of really good scores.