Is it me?

[PhilG007]

Maybe its just a phase I'm going through or having an evil mind but it would seem these Forums are becoming

more and more 'Masonic'. Taken over by a select 'clique' clientele who don't respect the opinions and

views of others on these discussion boards. On more than one occasion,when I dared to disagree with one of these

people,I was blasted wholesale and accused of being a 'troll'. In truth, the arrogance and conceit I've witnessed here beggars belief.

Clearly the bad manners and disrespect they display at the bridge table they also bring to these discussion boards.

The BBO Management should be thinking about bringing Moderators to police these Forums before a really serious situation develops :(

[gwnn]

Yes it's you. This elite clique you are talking about consists of the N-1 posters on BBF.

[PhilG007]

Yes it's you. This elite clique you are talking about consists of the N-1 posters on BBF.

Can you prove that with your usual 'flawless logic' (?!) <_<

[1eyedjack]

Well put it this way: Do you see other posters getting the same treatment from this "clique"? If not, then maybe instrospection is called for.

[gordontd]

 

The BBO Management should be thinking about bringing Moderators to police these Forums before a really serious situation develops :(

There are moderators. Presumably they don't see things the same way as you, either.

[billw55]

I will give you the courtesy of an honest and snark-free reply Phil.

 

There is a ... spectrum, you might say, of disagreement. Some assertions fall under difference of opinion. Others are simply wrong. In truth, a fair number of your contributions are in the latter category.

 

This by itself is does not warrant ridicule. As one of the weakest players that post here regularly, I often find myself corrected as well. It is your unwillingness to accept correction, from an overwhelming consensus of very strong players, that sets you apart.

[aguahombre]

There are, indeed, posters who respectfully disagree with those they know (or those with a name) --- and feel free to be less courteous to others.

 

However, I believe the way we word things has a lot to do with the blowback we get. Also, IMHO, posting a question/issue and then "going into the well" by responding to everyone's replies 0ne-by-one is bad form.

[hrothgar]

Just pointing out that the BBO management HAS appointed monitors.

 

I run afoul of them more frequently than I should...

[Zelandakh]

I think this post from mikeh back in June pretty much explained the whole thing to you and that was some time ago. It would be nice if you were open to learn and benefit from these forums. It is also fine if you prefer not to learn, just do not expect everyone else to support your views in that case.

[hrothgar]

BTW, in answer to your original question, the answer is a resounding "Yes".

 

You are the problem that needs to be fixed.

[Phil]

Hi Phil.

 

Think of the forums as a community. Many of us have been in the community for a long time - about 10 years or so.

 

People come on the scene and are disruptive for various reasons. Some are annoying beyond the pale, some spout lies and mistruths about global warming and other important issues and some want to use the forums to show off how their pet gadget magically solves the bidding problem of the day.

 

The worst offenders are the ones that cruise in and pick fights with respected members of the community instead of being deferential. There is a common trait of a lot of reasonable bridge players where they believe their action is correct and won't listen to better players. Confidence in bridge is a good thing, but it can retard your development.

 

Then there are trolls. A troll isn't a person that hangs out under a bridge. A troll is someone that makes statements that people gets pissed off at. Calling the community a bunch of masonic elites is being a troll. Making comments about how great a player you are since you have red points but disdain negative doubles is being a bridge troll.

 

Trolls can either rehabilitate or can expect continual retribution. So if youd,like some constructive ideas about how to fit in, just ask and people will be happy to help.

[billw55]

Then there are trolls. A troll isn't a person that hangs out under a bridge. A troll is someone that makes statements that people gets pissed off at. Calling the community a bunch of masonic elites is being a troll. Making comments about how great a player you are since you have red points but disdain negative doubles is being a bridge troll.

 

Trolls can either rehabilitate or can expect continual retribution. So if youd,like some constructive ideas about how to fit in, just ask and people will be happy to help.

Strictly speaking, I believe that the term "troll" (or its verb "trolling") refers to people who knowingly post drivel for the express intended purpose of causing irritation, argument, or discord.

 

Some here have stated their opinion that PhilG007 is one such. Personally I am not convinced of this; I still find it plausible that he believes what he is saying. (Hanlon's razor)

[masse24]

I still find it plausible that he believes what he is saying. (Hanlon's razor)

I'm convinced of it, which makes his posts all the more entertaining. I have an admittedly sick curiosity about just how laughable his next post will be.

[barmar]

There are moderators. Presumably they don't see things the same way as you, either.

We don't monitor aggressively, we generally only take action when someone complains about eggregious behavior via the Report button.

[PhilG007]

BTW, in answer to your original question, the answer is a resounding "Yes".

 

You are the problem that needs to be fixed.

You might think that...but I couldn't possibly comment(!) <_<

[PhilG007]

Strictly speaking, I believe that the term "troll" (or its verb "trolling") refers to people who knowingly post drivel for the express intended purpose of causing irritation, argument, or discord.

 

Some here have stated their opinion that PhilG007 is one such. Personally I am not convinced of this; I still find it plausible that he believes what he is saying. (Hanlon's razor)

"I still find it plausible that he believes what he is saying"

Of course I do...doesn't everyone (?!) <_< <_<

[PhilG007]

I'm convinced of it, which makes his posts all the more entertaining. I have an admittedly sick curiosity about just how laughable his next post will be.

Is that a confession..(?) I'm not a priest(!) <_<

[PhilG007]

Hi Phil.

 

Think of the forums as a community. Many of us have been in the community for a long time - about 10 years or so.

 

People come on the scene and are disruptive for various reasons. Some are annoying beyond the pale, some spout lies and mistruths about global warming and other important issues and some want to use the forums to show off how their pet gadget magically solves the bidding problem of the day.

 

The worst offenders are the ones that cruise in and pick fights with respected members of the community instead of being deferential. There is a common trait of a lot of reasonable bridge players where they believe their action is correct and won't listen to better players. Confidence in bridge is a good thing, but it can retard your development.

 

Then there are trolls. A troll isn't a person that hangs out under a bridge. A troll is someone that makes statements that people gets pissed off at. Calling the community a bunch of masonic elites is being a troll. Making comments about how great a player you are since you have red points but disdain negative doubles is being a bridge troll.

 

Trolls can either rehabilitate or can expect continual retribution. So if youd,like some constructive ideas about how to fit in, just ask and people will be happy to help.

In other words you think I am a rebel without a cause. Sorry,but I have to disagree. I am a rebel WITH an cause...and the cause is anti dogma.

[mikestar13]

Phil, see if this sheds any light: I was once a member a a forum devoted to a particular programming language. This one new poster was continually saying that this language was the best ever designed, except for this one feature which it was imperative to change immediately. However, that one feature was part of the language from the beginning and the most significant feature which made the language different from other languages. This poster was clearly and obviously wrong to the point that his error would be recognized by a fair number of intelligent non-programmers; but he refused to accept even the gentlest correction from the language developers and experienced users who had been using the language since version 1.0 (when these events happened, it was version 3.3). Now I will concede that you are not a new poster and that designing a bidding system is not exactly the same as designing a programming language, but with that in mind, look at yourself in a mirror and tell yourself whether you resemble the new poster on the programming language forum.

[gwnn]

Can you prove that with your usual 'flawless logic' (?!) <_<

Look in this thread and see how many people support you. The most positive post I have seen about you was in another thread and amounted to "I'm opposed to banning posters for stupidity." Inductive reasoning is not exactly flawless so my N-1 estimate is not necessarily accurate, but if there were a secret fanbase of yours they would very likely have spoken up already.

 

bottom line: PhilG007 is a bit outdated and needs certain repairs. We would need to wait until PhilG015 at least until they are allowed in the wild again, but more probably, the next line, PhilHxxx, is our best bet.

[eagles123]

PhilG I mean this with the greatest respect but either you are a (not very good) troll or you wildly exaggerate your own ability at bridge

 

Literally no advanced player in world bridge would agree with 90% + of your posts, in fact I think a player of just a few weeks experience would be scratching their head with some of the stuff you come out with!

[fromageGB]

If I may post a dissenting opinion, I think PhilG007 is an asset to the forums. While his ideas are not always mainstream, he sometimes does provide a point of view which prompts you to reflect more on the situation under discussion. If that results in reaffirmation of your previous thoughts, so be it, but you may have gained from the reanalysis.

 

I welcome suggestions and different approaches, and hearing about pet gadgets - such as a penalty double...

 

You can't blame PhilG from replying to personal criticisms. Let's douse the flames.

[gwnn]

You can't blame PhilG from replying to personal criticisms. Let's douse the flames.

As usual when we have a troll or suspected troll, you see people trying to assert that said troll was only replying to personal criticism. In fact if you check out their history it is invariably the poster in question who got personal and eventually got replies in kind. Of course it's difficult to tell if you're new or you don't follow the history too closely but it's not like PhilG just came here advocating penalty doubles and everybody just started the name calling.

 

I don't have a problem with advocating penalty doubles or strong unspecific cuebids, but only with asserting them as totally obvious and never even mentioning the fact (or entertaining the possibility) that this opinion is extremely non-standard. Again: it's OK to espouse old-fashioned methods but it's not OK to espouse them while calling everyone who disagrees with you clueless.

[Vampyr]

I don't have a problem with advocating penalty doubles or strong unspecific cuebids, but only with asserting them as totally obvious and never even mentioning the fact (or entertaining the possibility) that this opinion is extremely non-standard. Again: it's OK to espouse old-fashioned methods but it's not OK to espouse them while calling everyone who disagrees with you clueless.

 

To be fair to PhilG007, he says he is a rubber bridge player. So negative doubles and Michaels cuebids are probably not allowed in his club. So initially, anyway, he was unaware of modern duplicate methods.

 

Anyway, from time to time people come onto the forums to teach the rest of us to play bridge, say they are right and everyone else is wrong, and object to the fact that more consideration is given to the opinions world-class players than to their own. Who remembers HighLow21? Eventually they may, like he did, tone down their posts and their attitude. But they don't last long, because the forums turn out to be other than they had hoped.

 

At the moment their are people who are either inexperienced or have no exposure to methods other than their own who are posting pretty low-quality posts stating obviously this or always that. But they don't insist that they are right when they are corrected or (sometimes) criticised.

 

PhilG007 has neither gone away nor does he subside when everyone disagrees with him. Well, it's a public forum. Many of us occasionally spout drivel, and I think that a poster is entitled to do it more than occasionally, and I guess some people prefer to hoe a very lonely row. However I do worry about newer players being misled, and am not sure how this can be prevented.

[Phil]

 

bottom line: PhilG007 is a bit outdated and needs certain repairs. We would need to wait until PhilG015 at least until they are allowed in the wild again, but more probably, the next line, PhilHxxx, is our best bet.

 

This happened w v6 too. It was released into production with several patches. Help desk support was swamped with calls.

 

V7.0 attempted to strip out key features like negative doubles and Micheals.

 

V7.1 is nothing more than the marketing department claiming that less features mean better response times and makes a statement that others are actually the backward ones. It will release a commercial showing bonobos playing 2/1.

 

V8? Who knows?

 

Theres been discussions about PhilG "AAS". I doubt I'll subscribe until required functionality is built in.