A simple opening poll

[manudude03]

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MPs scoring (simultaneous pairs if it matters)

You are playing for the first time with a new partner who is of a reasonable standard (probably Advanced by BBO definitions). You have agreed to play 5 card majors with better minor, weak NT and otherwise Acol-style. What do you open here?

 

Rebid problems:

If you open 1C -

Partner bids 2C (inverted). What do you do now?

 

 

If you open 1D -

Partner responds 2C. What is your rebid?

 

 

If you open 1H/S -

Partner responds 2C. You do not play drury. What is your rebid?

 

 

If you open 1NT -

There is no rebid problem, you are left to play 1NT

 

[gordontd]

 

Rebid problems:

If you open 1D -

Partner responds 2C. What is your rebid?

 

I had this hand with these agreements, but with worse diamonds, and rebid 2D. We survived.

[Cyberyeti]

1♦, if the minimum for a 2/1 is 9 (or less) as it is for us I rebid 2♦, if 10+ I'll essay a GF 2N.

[hrothgar]

1♦, if the minimum for a 2/1 is 9 (or less) as it is for us I rebid 2♦, if 10+ I'll essay a GF 2N.

 

I open 1♠ and rebid 2♥

[Zelandakh]

In the version of Acol I play, I open this hand 1♦ and rebid 2♦, which is played as F1R. Even without that agreement I think it is worth the risk of being dropped in a silly spot to have a better auction on the majority of hands. I would take CY's 2NT rebid in preference to the 1♠ opening.

[WesleyC]

At MPs in 3rd seat, opening this hand anything other than 1♠ is criminal.

 

The 1♠ bid takes away the opponents chance to bid at the 1 level and will get our side off to the winning lead whenever LHO wins the auction.

 

Partner's 2♣ response gives us an ugly problem. Playing ACOL we've got little choice but to try 2♥ and hope for the best.

 

FWIW, partner should bid 2♣ sparingly as a passed hand at MPs for exactly this reason.

[gordontd]

At MPs in 3rd seat, opening this hand anything other than 1♠ is criminal.

 

The 1♠ bid takes away the opponents chance to bid at the 1 level and will get our side off to the winning lead whenever LHO wins the auction.

 

Partner's 2♣ response gives us an ugly problem. Playing ACOL we've got little choice but to try 2♥ and hope for the best.

 

FWIW, partner should bid 2♣ sparingly as a passed hand at MPs for exactly this reason.

Why do you imagine it's their hand - why can't you just bid your own hand so as to reach the best game when it's our hand?

 

If we were playing Acol (not ACOL) the correct opening would be 1H. But we aren't since we are playing 5cM, which is why it's a problem.

[Tramticket]

Even playing Acol with 4-card majors, I open 1D and will rebid 2D if necessary. I have never yet been left to play in 2D. This is becoming increasingly popular in Acol. It is very unattractive to open a major, rebid a second suit and imply a five-card suit in the major. I would much rather show a "five-card" diamond suit.

 

Second choice is to open 1NT.

[WesleyC]

Why do you imagine it's their hand - why can't you just bid your own hand so as to reach the best game when it's our hand?

 

If we were playing Acol (not ACOL) the correct opening would be 1H. But we aren't since we are playing 5cM, which is why it's a problem.

 

I agree that holding 14 HCP (in 3rd seat) our side is a favourite to hold the balance of points (maybe 70%/30%) but that doesn't mean the opponents will give up and pass throughout, especially when they are favourable. By far the most likely scenario on this deal is that points are split relatively evenly and we're about to fight a part-score battle.

 

In this context, I think system structure should take a backseat to tactics, especially when holding an already awkward hand like this.

 

Opening 1H might help us find a heart fit that might otherwise be missed, but it might also lead to us playing a weak 4/3 heart fit and missing spades altogether. I'm a lot more confident opening 1S because of the lead directing potential and the fact that a 4/3 fit there will definitely be playable.

[Zelandakh]

The 1♠ bid takes away the opponents chance to bid at the 1 level and will get our side off to the winning lead whenever LHO wins the auction.

In this context, I think system structure should take a backseat to tactics, especially when holding an already awkward hand like this.

Tactically, why are you worried about the opps bidding one of our strong 4 card suits holding a good defensive hand?

[Cyberyeti]

I agree that holding 14 HCP (in 3rd seat) our side is a favourite to hold the balance of points (maybe 70%/30%) but that doesn't mean the opponents will give up and pass throughout, especially when they are favourable. By far the most likely scenario on this deal is that points are split relatively evenly and we're about to fight a part-score battle.

 

In this context, I think system structure should take a backseat to tactics, especially when holding an already awkward hand like this.

 

Opening 1H might help us find a heart fit that might otherwise be missed, but it might also lead to us playing a weak 4/3 heart fit and missing spades altogether. I'm a lot more confident opening 1S because of the lead directing potential and the fact that a 4/3 fit there will definitely be playable.

 

What are you bidding over partner's 1N ?

[SteveMoe]

Easy 1♥ bid in 3rd seat opposite a passed partner. If partner raises ♥ I can make a try (short in ♣ or long in ♦. If partner responds in ♠ we are off to a good start.

Happy to pass partner's 1N and make a move if partner tries Drury.

 

Over natural 2♣, will rebid 2N.

[rmnka447]

I'm bidding 1 ♠ which is an exception to our agreements. But after a 1 ♦ opening, I don't want to potentially have to rebid 2 ♦ on ♦ Jxxx to limit my hand.

[mike777]

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MPs scoring (simultaneous pairs if it matters)

You are playing for the first time with a new partner who is of a reasonable standard (probably Advanced by BBO definitions). You have agreed to play 5 card majors with better minor, weak NT and otherwise Acol-style. What do you open here?

 

Rebid problems:

If you open 1C -

Partner bids 2C (inverted). What do you do now?

 

 

If you open 1D -

Partner responds 2C. What is your rebid?

 

 

If you open 1H/S -

Partner responds 2C. You do not play drury. What is your rebid?

 

 

If you open 1NT -

There is no rebid problem, you are left to play 1NT

 

 

 

these type of hands must be common, very common over the decades of Acol....is there not a standard, reasonably accepted way to handle them?

[neilkaz]

I'm bidding 1 ♠ which is an exception to our agreements. But after a 1 ♦ opening, I don't want to potentially have to rebid 2 ♦ on ♦ Jxxx to limit my hand.

Not an Acol guy here but I think so far we are the only votes for 1♠.

[nige1]

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MPs scoring (simultaneous pairs if it matters)You are playing for the first time with a new partner who is of a reasonable standard (probably Advanced by BBO definitions). You have agreed to play 5 card majors with better minor, weak NT and otherwise Acol-style. What do you open here?[/hv]

I rank

1. 1♦ = NAT. Best chance of finding a fit. After a 2♣ reply, Pass or follow Gordontd's advice and rebid 2♦.
2. 1♠ = NAT. 5 cards. Well, it looks like 5 cards to Hrothgar and me. Over 2♣, rebid 2♥.
3. 1♥ = NAT. 5 cards, More of a lie. Over 2♣, pass or gurgle 2♦.

[msjennifer]

Whether playing a standard system or Precision,a 2 C response is forcing and promises one more bid.I shall bid 2 H which is NOT a reverse bid since partner has forced me.If over my 2H partner bids 2S,I will bid 3H showing four spades (2S may be natural or 4 th suit bid).Partner will now know that my hand is 4432 or 4441 and obviously if 4432 then the hand is limited to 14HCP at most since with 15 the opening bid would be 1NT.I do not show five card heart suit when I respond 3 H over 2S as with five hearts I would open 1H and not 1D.Of course !partner CAN have a decent 12HCP although he is a passed hand.

[gordontd]

these type of hands must be common, very common over the decades of Acol....is there not a standard, reasonably accepted way to handle them?

Yes, the standard way to handle them is to open 1H and rebid 2D. But the original question had the system as 5cM, not Acol.

 

One might equally say they must be common in (non 2/1 GF) Std Am too... what is the standard way of handling them there?

[WesleyC]

Tactically, why are you worried about the opps bidding one of our strong 4 card suits holding a good defensive hand?

 

I'm not 'worried' about the opponents bidding one of our suits, but I would prefer to stop them exploring for a profitable part-score sacrifice at a low level.

 

A 1S opening takes away enough space that they might end up finding their fit a level higher and allow our side a profitable double.

 

What are you bidding over partner's 1N ?

 

Pass.

[WesleyC]

Yes, the standard way to handle them is to open 1H and rebid 2D. But the original question had the system as 5cM, not Acol.

 

One might equally say they must be common in (non 2/1 GF) Std Am too... what is the standard way of handling them there?

 

In 1st/2nd seat playing standard you've got an easy 1D opening planning to rebid 2NT over 2C. The rebid problem only exists in the context of weak 1NT.

[gordontd]

In 1st/2nd seat playing standard you've got an easy 1D opening planning to rebid 2NT over 2C. The rebid problem only exists in the context of weak 1NT.

That suggests to me that, if you are going to avoid missing a major suit fit, you will have to respond in a four-card major rather than a six-card minor with invitational values. That's not entirely unproblematic.

 

And of course the 2nt rebid is already problematic since you risk getting overboard if played as forcing, as defined in SAYC, or not knowing when to bid on if it's 12-14 and can be passed.

[msjennifer]

With a regular partner,since all the HCP are in majors I open the given hand 1S in all positions.Reverse the holding in major suits and I open 1H. As per this scheme you get the wanted opening lead and also avoid rebid problems in an approach oriented standard system.

[Tramticket]

In 1st/2nd seat playing standard you've got an easy 1D opening planning to rebid 2NT over 2C. The rebid problem only exists in the context of weak 1NT.

 

Not entirely true - make the Jack of Diamonds into the Queen, or even the King, and you have a problem in a strong NT system.

 

But I a agree that the problem of 4441 hands with a singleton club can be worse in a weak NT system.

[Vampyr]

Whether playing a standard system or Precision,a 2 C response is forcing and promises one more bid.

 

The latter is not true in any of my partnerships, but even if this is your agreement it is probably off when partner is a passed hand.

 

I shall bid 2 H which is NOT a reverse bid since partner has forced me.

 

Well, it is a reverse, but you are free to define it as not promising extra values if you really want to.

[Vampyr]

Please delete.