What's 6 spades, undiscussed?

[Jinksy]

Assume strong partnership, but with only rudimentary agreements over 1N:

 

1N 2♣ /

2♥ 6♠

 

What sort of hand do you expect from responder?

[johnu]

Assume strong partnership, but with only rudimentary agreements over 1N:

 

1N 2♣ /

2♥ 6♠

 

What sort of hand do you expect from responder?

 

A hand with either 12 cards or 14 cards?

 

Alternatively, something like a 4-3-2-4 hand where responder has missorted their hand and really has an 8 card spade suit and void in clubs (e.g. 8-3-2-0)

[manudude03]

Someone that realised that their 4315 hand was in fact a 9310 hand.

[inquiry]

I can't imagine 6♠ bid on that auction made by a strong partnership.

[SteveMoe]

Choose one:

- an asking bid - for a new partner.

- a torture bid - see choice 1.

- 9=4=0=0 missing one Ace with 2 losers (though there is no rationale for bidding this way😀) that partner originally missorted to 5=4=0=4

- a mechanical slip of the bidding box

- Partner saw a cow fly by

- Partner was going to bid 6♠ anyway but wanted to induce/inhibit a ♥ lead.

- who knows

[Zelandakh]

I think the most likely is 6=4=x=y and partner is either unsure how to set spades in a forcing way or worried about a void with no XRKCB available. I suppose with AK in both minors and a doubleton spade you might consider 6NT at MPs, otherwise you simply pass and there is no need to worry about what kind of hand partner has. I do not think the Expert forum is the right place for this though - I doubt any expert would make this bid "with only rudimentary agreements".

[Jinksy]

Sure, it seems daft to me, but I just wanted to check I wasn't missing some kind of expect standard/'obvious' meaning, since the player in question said this is what he taught his beginners(!).

[gordontd]

I think it would have to be a hand with slam values and four spades, wanting to play in 6S if you have four of them (as well as your four hearts) and 6NT if you don't.

[rhm]

I do not care.

I have not been asked.

My partner does not want any further input from me.

 

I understand that many have no forcing continuation with 4 spades and a balanced hand after Stayman. .

I do and I would not throw this sequence at partner if I did not.

 

 

Rainer Herrmann

[Vampyr]

I understand that many have no forcing continuation with 4 spades and a balanced hand after Stayman.

I do...

 

What is it?

[Zelandakh]

What is it?

When I played normal Stayman, I used 2♠ after 1NT - 2♣; 2♥ as a Baron range ask. Another popular method is for an immediate 2♠ response to handle balanced slam tries that might prefer to play in a 4-4 fit. Either of these methods will handle a minor suit fit as well as a spade fit. These days, using Puppet Stayman, there is 1NT - 2♣; 2♦ - 2♥ to ask if Opener has 4 spades or 1NT - 2♣; 2♦ - 3♣ as GF with both majors. I find it hard to believe that an expert NT structure would not be able to handle this hand type.

[gordontd]

I find it hard to believe that an expert NT structure would not be able to handle this hand type.

The OP specified "only rudimentary agreements over 1N".

[masse24]

 

- Partner saw a cow fly by

 

This . . . is standard in this sequence.

[rhm]

What is it?

 

Similar to what Zelandakh plays

 

Over a red suit response after Stayman I play 2♠ as a strong game forcing relays requesting further information.

Over 2♠ 2♣ is the strong relays.

 

Rainer Herrmann

[Winstonm]

I can't imagine 6♠ bid on that auction made by a strong partnership.

 

Isn't the question "what message is partner trying to convey"? Surely this is a grand slam try, too. I think the spotlight on this auction must be the heart suit itself. Partner is saying that opposite a NT opener he can make slam in spades from his side and Oh, by the way, he has 4 hearts, too. I would guess a hand like AKQJxx, Kxxx, void, Axx?

 

 

Perhaps opener should bid 7H with xx, AQ10x, AJx, KQxx?

 

That's my best guess.

[Cyberyeti]

I think it would have to be a hand with slam values and four spades, wanting to play in 6S if you have four of them (as well as your four hearts) and 6NT if you don't.

 

Depends if you think such a partnership would play 5N as "bid 6 or 7" or "pick a slam"

 

I was surprised last weekend to see Dixon/Anthias playing 1N-5N as pick a slam

[gordontd]

Depends if you think such a partnership would play 5N as "bid 6 or 7" or "pick a slam"

 

I was surprised last weekend to see Dixon/Anthias playing 1N-5N as pick a slam

I think it's hard to pick a slam if you haven't been told what are the possible strains.

[Cyberyeti]

I think it's hard to pick a slam if you haven't been told what are the possible strains.

 

So do I, but "bid another 4 card suit if you have one or rebid a 5 card heart suit" would be a reasonable interpretation in this auction.

[nige1]

Assume strong partnership, but with only rudimentary agreements over 1N:

1N 2♣ /

2♥ 6♠

What sort of hand do you expect from responder?

Agree with GordonTD. How would pattner respond with 17-HCP and 4333 shape? Presumably, he would start with 2♣ (Stayman). Over 2♥, he might rebid a unilateral 6N. But he might hope to offer you a choice, in case you hold 4-4 in the majors. Which would be less ambiguous? 5N or 6♠? Undiscussed, you might take 5N to be a grand-slam try. Perhaps partner thinks 6♠ is clearer. He pays you the compliment that you can work that out. IMO, without 4♠, you should probably prefer 6N,

[Vampyr]

I think it would have to be a hand with slam values and four spades, wanting to play in 6S if you have four of them (as well as your four hearts) and 6NT if you don't.

 

 

Similar

 

Pretty obvious if you stop to think about it, rather than dismissing it as ridiculous or assuming partner missorted his hand.

[alok c]

I think it would have to be a hand with slam values and four spades, wanting to play in 6S if you have four of them (as well as your four hearts) and 6NT if you don't.

In that case would'nt it be prudent for responder to bid 5Spades,so that opener can bid 5NT/6S depending upon his hand & subsequently responder can bid 6NT/pass.

[gordontd]

In that case would'nt it be prudent for responder to bid 5Spades,so that opener can bid 5NT/6S depending upon his hand & subsequently responder can bid 6NT/pass.

That wouldn't work so well if opener decided it was an invitation and chose to decline it.

[rhm]

Perhaps partner thinks 6♠ is clearer. He pays you the compliment that you can work that out. IMO, without 4♠, you should probably prefer 6N,

Partner should pay compliments in the postmortem.

I can do without such compliments in the bidding.

 

Rainer Herrmann

[gordontd]

Assume strong partnership, but with only rudimentary agreements over 1N:

 

1N 2♣ /

2♥ 6♠

 

What sort of hand do you expect from responder?

So what was the hand?

[gszes]

I was a bit surprised there were so many unfamiliar with this. That player has some GOOD beginners since I don't even mess with slam bidding until they have a clue about game/no game bidding. The main point is that, until proven otherwise, your CHO is actually on your side and at least TRY and think of a logical meaning. EVERYONE learns differently and we do the best we can. I like a treatment where if I open 6 (of anything) I want p to bid 7 with the A or K of trumps. I have discussed this with many people and few had thought of it but no one hated it. This 6s bid (showing 4 spades and POC to 6n) can be figured out if you quit watching cows jump or playing doodle bug while playing bridge:)