Pass or invite?

[PhilG007]

I have been in this situation countless times and have profited by it.

Partner opened 1NT (both weak and strong) I bid 2♣ Stayman

Partner responded in my major and I bid game.It transpired that we were missing the top

three trump honors. Partner had replied holding xxxx in our suit. Result we were set 1 or 2

tricks. This clearly shows that Stayman,while a very useful convention, has its flaws and

should be treated with caution.

[PhilG007]

[hv=pc=n&s=sa432hqj2dqj9ckt3&w=skt87h4dat5cqj864&n=sj965hak86dk73c72&e=sqht9753d8642ca95&d=e&v=n&b=2&a=p1np2cp2sp3sppp]399|300[/hv]

 

I did invite, but Murphy's Law is still in force. After going down one at 3S, partner informed me that I should pass 2S because I have only 11 HCP. Results improve bidding judgement. Thanks for all the comments.

The North hand actually has 12 points. 1 point being added for the club doubleton as a major suit fit has been found

so a game invite of 3♠ is perfectly justified. South should only go to game if he is maximum for his NT opening.

[kenberg]

[hv=pc=n&s=sa432hqj2dqj9ckt3&w=skt87h4dat5cqj864&n=sj965hak86dk73c72&e=sqht9753d8642ca95&d=e&v=n&b=2&a=p1np2cp2sp3sppp]399|300[/hv]

 

I did invite, but Murphy's Law is still in force. After going down one at 3S, partner informed me that I should pass 2S because I have only 11 HCP. Results improve bidding judgement. Thanks for all the comments.

 

I was one of the many who invited, in fact it was unanimous the last time I looked.

 

But another point.

 

In hands such as this, I view it as a serious error to afterward explain to partner why he should not have invited. Even if it is not unanimous to invite, I can't imagine anyone thinking that it is a clear error to invite. And, as one eye above suggests, and GIB confirms, there are nine tricks available. Is it then profitable to ask partner why he did not make 3♠?

 

Many bridge decisions, in bidding and play, are close calls. We are all only so good at these. "You should not have invited", "You should have made it", does no good whatsoever in my opinion. Save the discussions for the times, frequent enough in my experience, when there has been a misunderstanding of intended meaning.

 

 

Checking back on judgment through later friendly discussion is another matter. Views from others can be helpful.

 

Forgive the preachy tone, but I feel strongly about this.

[Tramticket]

Yes, agree with Kenberg, these are tricky judgements. At pairs you are hoping to get it right more than 50% of the time. Many times it will be wrong - don't beat each other up.

 

I want partner to bid on with most decent 13 counts (this is NOT a decent 13!), so I will often pass 1NT with 11. But if you are going to pass, it is on the first round, not once you have found the spade fit.

[jogs]

 

you have somewhere from 23-25 highs, and you're going to risk playing 3S with 23-24 in order to reach a magic 25 point game, which by the way, is not guaranteed to make, and it's matchpoints!

 

 

Game is probably between 43 to 48%. Also against most pair fields making 10 tricks will net a reasonable score. Give me plus scores.

[neilkaz]

[hv=pc=n&s=sa432hqj2dqj9ckt3&w=skt87h4dat5cqj864&n=sj965hak86dk73c72&e=sqht9753d8642ca95&d=e&v=n&b=2&a=p1np2cp2sp3sppp]399|300[/hv]

 

I did invite, but Murphy's Law is still in force. After going down one at 3S, partner informed me that I should pass 2S because I have only 11 HCP. Results improve bidding judgement. Thanks for all the comments.

 

The vote here is 26-0 to invite! GIB says 3♠ is cold and it does appear to me that South should make it. Perhaps your PD should have thought about how to make this contract vs a 4-1 split rather than bemoaning his bad luck and what he believed to be your sub-minimal invite.

 

Your OP stated that you were opposite a good PD. I'd hope that my good PD's could make 3♠ here. I'd strongly suggest to your PD that he do 1) come here and read this thread. 2) Work out how he should've made the contract.

 

I wonder what your PD would've said if he had the right decent 14 HCP and the cards had been right and he'd gone +200 after you passed in 2♠?

 

Note also when it comes to HCP, 11 opposite 13 or 12 opposite 12 makes game more often than 16 opposite 8 in general. This is because there's more transportation between the hands leading to more chances and options in the play.

[Phil]

This looks like a hand from Klingers book. Keri would let you stop in 2S. So would xyz if South starts with 1C.

 

I'm not going to get too excited about getting to a contract the field rates to match. If we go down on normal breaks and we get a 30-40% board it's not the end of the world.

 

Apparently your partner was too twitterpated from your bidding to properly play 3S.

[jeananne25]

I play weak NT and would invite. You have already shown a lighter reply with 2C rather than game-forcing 2D. Pard can decide knowing you are probable 11 pts.

[ggwhiz]

I would be so ashamed to go down in 3♠. I sure hope you're not married.

[Vampyr]

I play weak NT and would invite. You have already shown a lighter reply with 2C rather than game-forcing 2D. Pard can decide knowing you are probable 11 pts.

 

The OP would probably have mentioned two-way Stayman if they were playing it.

[jmcilkley]

Maybe this question is basically wrong. Would I even have bid Stayman? The hand has a losing trick count of 8 and a 1nt opening hand has 7 or 8 losers. On this basis there is no chance of game in a major. However, 11 points is usually enough to invite game in NT. At pairs I would be tempted to pass 2s but at teams I probably would not even bid Stayman but immediately invite game in NT.

[Tramticket]

Mike, surely this hand is worth much more in a suit contract than no trumps?? (Aces and kings rather than queens and jacks; the doubleton ...).

 

I'm either passing on the first round or using Stayman (and then bidding on, once a fit is found) - at pairs.

 

I'm always bidding Stayman at IMPs - and closer to bidding 4S direct over 2S than passing.

[eagles123]

Maybe this question is basically wrong. Would I even have bid Stayman? The hand has a losing trick count of 8 and a 1nt opening hand has 7 or 8 losers. On this basis there is no chance of game in a major. However, 11 points is usually enough to invite game in NT. At pairs I would be tempted to pass 2s but at teams I probably would not even bid Stayman but immediately invite game in NT.

 

what on earth are you talking about?

[jogs]

The vote here is 26-0 to invite! GIB says 3♠ is cold and it does appear to me that South should make it. Perhaps your PD should have thought about how to make this contract vs a 4-1 split rather than bemoaning his bad luck and what he believed to be your sub-minimal invite.

 

 

I forgot to vote. Make that 30-1. 3-2 split is 68%. Poor declarer play is unknown.

 

What's 2♠= worth? What's 3♠-1 worth?

 

Also the probability of opener having 12 HCP > 13 HCP > 14 HCP. Opener has 14 HCP clearly less than 30% of the time. And with that 14 HCP it is an iffy game.

[jogs]

Should add with opener's range being 12-14, opener's chance of having 14 is a little over 25% of the time. Since we have 11 HCP, his chances drop considerably.

[q154430]

I want my partners to invite with 23-25. It's as close to a formula as we have in this game. Your partner might prefer 24-26 especially if he can't make 3 on this.

 

28 won't always make, 23 won't always go down, and he is not always right. Get an agreement and tell him to stop complaining. Your opponents will appreciate it too.

[rmnka447]

Sorry to reply so late, but was out of town.

 

My preferred system (KS) uses 12-14 weak NTs all seats all vulnerabilities. I'm inviting 100% of the time with OP's stated hand. I think OP's partner is all wrong about passing 2 ♠.

 

For Strong NTers, the bidding would go

 

1 ♣ - 1 ♥

1 ♠ - ?

 

Would those with OP's hand simply bid 2 ♠? I don't think many will.

[jogs]

Again it's me against the world. 30-40-30. This is a physical phenomenal which occurs frequently. 30% of boards are lucky. 40% of boards have results as expected. 30% of boards are unlucky. This board falls into the unlucky group.

The trumps are Jxxx opposite 4 unknown. 9 unknown spades and opener has 4 of them. 3 are the SA, SK and SQ. That's 84 possible combinations. Opener has 0, 1, 2, or 3 of those high honors. The chances are 10, 40, 30, and 4 respectively. Having zero or one high spade makes it very likely we have two or more trump losers. Bad for us. Bad for our chances making 10 tricks with 14 opposite 11.

 

Questions for the OP.

Q1: 5332. Do you open 1♠ or 1NT? If 1♠ pass of the opening 1NT by pard is clear.

Q2: After you invite, does pard ever go with 13 HCP? If yes, then 3NT must be under 50%. Maybe under 40%.

Q3: Do you ever open 1NT with 5422 and a 5-card spade suit? If yes, pass of the opening 1NT is even more clear.

[Zelandakh]

Playing 12-14 NT at matchpoints with a good partner

After going down one at 3S, partner informed me that I should pass 2S because I have only 11 HCP.

There seems to be a mistake in one of these 2 posts. If you do not invite with this hand you might as well give up on playing them altogether.