Can you open ?

[Phil]

Sorry, this isn't a matter of style, unless you consider losing bridge a style. If you dropped this hand into a national pairs final, at least 80% of the players would open this hand and maybe the number is higher than that.

 

I would like to think that bridge players, especially those that participate in Internet forums are capable of improvement, even if it goes against what they were taught 20-30 years ago.

 

Edit: in Denver I played a KO semi final against Dan Korbel and Huub. Dan was joking that he and Huub passed exactly ONE 11 count the entire tournament, and this was on the last Sunday, and they don't play Precision. If you think about all of the crappy 11s that come your way that's a lot of bidding. The subject hand is far from crappy.

[neilkaz]

I agree with Phil and am happy to open this hand. It is important to get ♠ into the auction quickly and we certainly want PD to lead one.

[Zelandakh]

Just to be clear, this hand was a clear opening bid for Culbertson back in the 30s as it contains 2.5+ HTs. Anyone passing such a hand and claiming to be an aggressive bidder gets a huge :lol:. Sure you can play a conservative one-level opening style and be successful but it is a lot more difficult as you need great judgement on competitive decisions in the later auction and it gives up some advantages that few club-level players can ever hope to regain by other means.

 

The point is that what UD wrote is absolutely correct, the majority of good players would open this hand. That is not to be disdainful of those choosing to pass or open at the 2 level, just that one should recognise that that is a minority position, not only in 2016 but also 80 years ago! Most of all, one should understand that exercising judgement comes at all stages of an auction and few absolute rules are really absolute.

 

And just for the record, as a beginner I only opened hands with 12hcp or 11 plus a 6 card suit, so I would also have passed this hand. I would like to think I have learned something since that time! :unsure:

[msjennifer]

If playing 2/1 as game forcing,it is dangerous to open this hand in 1st or 2nd seat unless playing Drury or reverse Drury in all seats.However, in 3rd seat after two passes this is a clear cut 1Spade opener.

[miamijd]

As others have noted, it's a matter of system and partnership agreement. Playing some type of American system like 2/1, it,s generally better to pass these sorts of hands in 1-2 seat. 5332 is poor shape; if your partner doesn't fit you in spades, you'll have a rough go of it on offense.

 

Playing a strong club system, however, this is a fine opener. If you like to bid aggressively in 1-2 seat, consider playing a Precision variant

 

Cheers

Mike

[UdcaDenny]

Thanks everybody for your thoughts about my opening. Now I have agreed with my partner about using the Law of 20.

As my hand only counts 19 I shud pass. Still this hand is better than many 20 points hands so I think this hand

could be an exception. The concentration of high cards in 2 suits shud add one extra point.

[aguahombre]

If playing 2/1 as game forcing,it is dangerous to open this hand in 1st or 2nd seat unless playing Drury or reverse Drury in all seats.However, in 3rd seat after two passes this is a clear cut 1Spade opener.

No. What is dangerous is responder making a 2/1 game forcing response with the same semi-balanced 11 and 12 counts -- not taking into account that these are no longer game forcing hands in the modern world.

[chasetb]

If you have 10-15 HCP and only 0-1 HCP outside your 2 longest suits, then you can easily give extra points. Here, you clearly should give an extra point, giving you enough to open 1♠ (a great suit to boot)! Not to open this hand is losing bridge.

 

FWIW, the Four Aces (1935) would have opened this hand 1♠, and for two years they were the most dominant team, beating Culbertson's team every time.

[lycier]

Thanks everybody for your thoughts about my opening. Now I have agreed with my partner about using the Law of 20.

As my hand only counts 19 I shud pass. Still this hand is better than many 20 points hands so I think this hand

could be an exception. The concentration of high cards in 2 suits shud add one extra point.

 

Really?

Sorry, I disagree with your opinions.

 

In fact, this is only wishful thinking on your exceptions unless you have discussed with your pd. Orelse, it will be very difficult to obtain the trust of fellow only due to a hand.

 

Here, may I ask you two questions?

- How many losers are there in your hand with count 19?

The answer is 8 losers.

 

- How many value points are there in your balanced 5332 hand?

The answer is 12 points (11hcp+1 length point)

 

 

Assume your point is correct, now I would take a classic example :

 

♠:AGJXXX

♥:KXX

♦:XXX

♣:X

 

Now you see my hand : only 7 losers,12 value points. Then compared to your poor 5332 hand, which hand is more better if it would open 1♠? which hand could you get more tricks?

 

Needless to say, I believe almost of players are willing to hold my hand to open 1♠ instead of your hand if it must need to open 1♠. However USA expert would open 2♠. now you see this hand .

[hv=http://www.bridgebase.com/tools/handviewer.html?bbo=y&lin=pn||st%7C%7Cmd%7C2S28TH589AD258C3TJ%2CS479JQAH4TKD69TC7%2CSH23JD34JAC2569QA%2C%7Crh%7C%7Cah%7CBoard%2016%7Csv%7Ce%7Cmb%7C2S%7Cmb%7C3C%7Cmb%7C3S%7Cmb%7Cp%7Cmb%7Cp%7Cmb%7Cp%7Cpc%7CH2%7Cpc%7CH6%7Cpc%7CHA%7Cpc%7CHT%7Cpc%7CH9%7Cpc%7CH4%7Cpc%7CH3%7Cpc%7CHQ%7Cpc%7CS3%7Cpc%7CS2%7Cpc%7CSQ%7Cpc%7CC6%7Cpc%7CSJ%7Cpc%7CC2%7Cpc%7CS5%7Cpc%7CS8%7Cpc%7CSA%7Cpc%7CD4%7Cpc%7CSK%7Cpc%7CST%7Cpc%7CC7%7Cpc%7CCA%7Cmc%7C10%7C]400|300[/hv]

 

 

Don't be worried about west player,four of player are decent USA expert, today they played in the table of USA world champion Swanson at bbo.

If you would stress your hand is a exception, now I have more valid reasons to open 1♠ in my hand, would you think my hand is another exception? especially my hand is better than yours.

Some people stress 80% players open 1♠, this is a specious thinking, the history have showed that over 80% people are unlikely to be a world champion all their life. 80% doesn't represent the correct.

Anyway, we should know in the heart,whatever opening 1♠ or pass, it's just a views of the times,and not to other.

[nullve]

Thanks everybody for your thoughts about my opening. Now I have agreed with my partner about using the Law of 20.

As my hand only counts 19 I shud pass. Still this hand is better than many 20 points hands so I think this hand

could be an exception. The concentration of high cards in 2 suits shud add one extra point.

The rule of 20 (or rule of 19 or...) is unfortunately only as good as the hcp valuation method that goes into it. So when I use the rule of 20, I make sure to first count hcp using my preferred valuation method; then I translate the result into Miltonese (integer values only, value of A+K+Q+J is 10 points), as it were, before adding the number of cards in the two longest suits. On this particular hand, I'd get 12 Miltonese hcp by rounding upwards, so the hand would meet the rule of 20.

[gfroeli]

I think it's a very appropriate opener. A five card major with top two is stronger than it looks. Worse case scenario, you play 1S and go down. Compared to a possible fit with P and giving the info you have 5 seems like a no brainer.

[Zelandakh]

I think it's a very appropriate opener. A five card major with top two is stronger than it looks. Worse case scenario, you play 1S and go down. Compared to a possible fit with P and giving the info you have 5 seems like a no brainer.

Welcome to the BBO forums gfroeli. Playing in 1♠ is certainly not the worst case scenario. One example of where things could go wrong is Responder having a shapely minor-based hand and chooses to stretch to a game force rather than accept an awkward invitational auction. There are plenty of examples of such responding hands on these forums and in this case that would likely result in a severely understrength 3NT. That does not make opening 1♠ the wrong choice of course.

[Lovera]

"THE OPENING BIDDING WITH A FEW HIGH CARDS. Although a 14-point count generally justifies an opening statement, good players will go through the minimum hands containing less than 9 points in high cards. With only 8 points or less, there is a risk that the partner accounts on the possession by you of key cards that you have not, and once you open the bidding will be difficult to cancel this wrong impression... (42) ♠ 73 ♥ KQ1094 ♦ KQ85 ♣ 84 bid 1 hearts or passed - No one forces you to open up with an13 points hand. This falls in the style of bidding and you can open or switch, as you wish."(From "The Complete Stayman Systeme Of Contract Bidding" by S. M. Stayman pag. 24).

[Zelandakh]

(From "The Complete Stayman Systeme Of Contract Bidding" by S. M. Stayman pag. 24).

Because Stayman is/was an expert on 2016 2/1 bidding theory?

[lycier]

Because Stayman is/was an expert on 2016 2/1 bidding theory?

 

Ha-ha

It is said your Englishmen are humorous gentleman, it appears this word is real.http://www.bridgebase.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif

[lycier]

If you hold ♠10832, ♥AK93, ♦8743, ♣A, can you open?

If hold ♠AJ75, ♥652, ♦void, ♣KQJ976, can you open?

 

Perhaps over 80% people want to open, here I take a example at below.

JEC match

Playing time : 2016-04-07

[hv=http://www.bridgebase.com/tools/handviewer.html?sn=JEC&s=SAJ75H652DCKQJ976&wn=adamw&w=S6HJT74DKJ95C8543&nn=llorenzo&n=SKQ94HQ8DAQT62CT2&en=sbeatty&e=ST832HAK93D8743CA&d=e&v=e&b=6&a=PPP1DP2CP2DP2SP4SPPP&p=HJH8HKH2HAH6H4HQH3H5H7S4CTCAC6C3H9C7HTS9SKS2S5S6SQS3S7D5C2S8C9C4ST&c=9]400|300[/hv]

 

Here is another table for reference.

[hv=http://www.bridgebase.com/tools/handviewer.html?sn=garnetts&s=SAJ75H652DCKQJ976&wn=levysh&w=S6HJT74DKJ95C8543&nn=mgolden&n=SKQ94HQ8DAQT62CT2&en=gel123&e=ST832HAK93D8743CA&d=e&v=e&b=6&a=1D2CP3NPPP&p=HAH2H7H8HKH5H4HQH3H6HTD2HJD6H9C6D5DAD4C7CTCAC9C4S2&c=8]400|300[/hv]

 

As we know, JEC, Sbeatty and Adamw are USA star players, Jec and Sbeatty never open.

So this problem is only for partnership agreement.

[Zelandakh]

As we know, JEC, Sbeatty and Adamw are USA star players, Jec and Sbeatty never open.

So this problem is only for partnership agreement.

Stupid argument. We can all provide names for a number of world class pairs that would open marginal hands and others that would not. Providing these names does not advance the argument very far in terms of what is normal at club/advanced level, what is acceptable or what is best. I will merely point out that jec is known for having an extremely conservative style of opening amongst modern expert teams. I already pointed out that that can easily lead to more difficult judgement decisions on the subsequent rounds of bidding so I would not generally recommend this approach for I/A players.

[lycier]

Oh, yes, you are correct. http://www.bridgebase.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif

[billw55]

I can see downgrading the east hand for the stiff ace, although many would still open.

 

But I don't know what to say about failing to open the south hand. If I did not know who did it, I admit I would say with conviction that pass is just plain wrong. But obviously Jimmy could mop the floor with me. I guess styles vary more than I thought.

[Lovera]

Although the JEC hand in post #41 has (medialy) 16 valutation points, it satisfies the 20 rule, has a good club suit and a void (possible) to utilize :why not open ? To speculize ?