For the win

[zenbiddist]

1NT-2C

2D-2N

3H

 

 

You Stayman, and partner denies a major. But over your invite, he bids 3H - hello there! What's that then?

 

Thoughts please. And same over 1NT...3N-4M?

[mgoetze]

1NT-2C

2D-2N

3H

 

 

You Stayman, and partner denies a major. But over your invite, he bids 3H - hello there! What's that then?

I expect it shows heart values, implying that he's worried about the spade situation.

 

Thoughts please. And same over 1NT...3N-4M?

This is an asking bid. Asking for a new partner.

[Vampyr]

I expect it shows heart values, implying that he's worried about the spade situation.

 

Well, for completeness he has three good hearts, otherwise suggesting a Moysian would be unwise.

[Vampyr]

Please delete

[wank]

1nt-3nt-4M is obviously to play. partner no doubt has his reasons. playing with a strong player, so no hogging, i once had the auction 2NT - 3C (normal stayman)- 3H - 3NT - 4H. i had a 3622 shape.

 

1NT-2C-2D-2NT-3H sounds like an offer to play a moysian, probably with weak spades. something like xx axx akxxx aqx

[mgoetze]

1nt-3nt-4M is obviously to play.

I think he was too lazy to type out 1NT-2♣-2♦-3NT-4M.

[alok c]

1NT-2C

2D-2N

3H

 

 

You Stayman, and partner denies a major. But over your invite, he bids 3H - hello there! What's that then?

 

Thoughts please. And same over 1NT...3N-4M?

1.Appears to be asking to bid 3NT with a H stopper.

2.To play.

[Vampyr]

1.Appears to be asking to bid 3NT with a H stopper.

 

Interesting but not very useful.

[alok c]

Interesting but not very useful.

Otherwise bid your longer minor.

[gszes]

I remain a skeptic this is useful -- a long but crummy dia* suit near max and opened 1n with a singleton (in whatever suit opener bids). The willingness to play 2d with long hearts makes zero sense. AQx x Qxxxxx AKQ. All kinds of rebid problems (in standard systems anyway)if not open 1n

 

over 2c opener would have to bid a suit at 3 lvl to show the same hand but with long clubs. This is a much scarier idea since responder could well be using emergency stayman.

 

The number of hands that would fit this type of description would be pretty darn small and you need to be able to sign off in 3/4n if responder feels it is right so another set of agreements is needed on how to proceed if 3n or 4n are not deemed correct by responder.

[manudude03]

I would have assumed weakness in that suit, usually a small doubleton. This sequence actually came up for me a few weeks ago undiscussed, partner had confused stayman and landy and had bid 2D with 4-4 in the majors.

[SteveMoe]

Would play this to mean weak ♠, but accepting the invite. If responder has no ♠ stopper this asks to play in the safe minor at the 4 or 5 level.

1N...3N-4M means partner found not one but two M cards mixed in with ther m suit of the same color and wants to play in the safer 4M game. Time to call in the relief pitcher.

[Finch]

3H over 2NT shows a maximum, a strong 3-card heart suit and a weakness somewhere. It's probably only worth while if 2C promised a major or else it's just giving too much away.

 

4H over 3NT says I missorted my hand and my 3334 is really a 3604 or whatever.

[gnasher]

3H over 2NT shows a maximum, a strong 3-card heart suit and a weakness somewhere.

You mean something like xx KQx AKxx AJxx? Maybe that's what it shows, but I just can't imagine anyone actually bidding it

[wanoff]

Or even any max 3h hand when responder might be 4522

[Caitlynne]

Since you are asking about the meaning of this, it is safe to assume that you have not made an agreement with partner. Since a 4 card major has been denied, these subsequent bids are "idle" bids for which the partnership may assign meanings by agreement. These bids are unlike other "idle" bids for which there is wide agreement about the meaning (e.g., the 2S rebid in the auctions 1H-1N, 2C/D-2S showing a super max raise of opener's minor).

 

So, in the absence of discussion, the bid is clearly an announcement that your partner has such disdain for partnership and you that your partner no longer wishes to play with you.

 

There are many ways this bid could be played. It could be played, for example, as a 3 card major showing bid with a maximum and weak doubleton in the other major. But, that is not clear without discussion and, as such, such a bid should never be trotted out for the first time in the heat of battle.

[Phil]

Since you are asking about the meaning of this, it is safe to assume that you have not made an agreement with partner. Since a 4 card major has been denied, these subsequent bids are "idle" bids for which the partnership may assign meanings by agreement. These bids are unlike other "idle" bids for which there is wide agreement about the meaning (e.g., the 2S rebid in the auctions 1H-1N, 2C/D-2S showing a super max raise of opener's minor).

 

So, in the absence of discussion, the bid is clearly an announcement that your partner has such disdain for partnership and you that your partner no longer wishes to play with you.

 

There are many ways this bid could be played. It could be played, for example, as a 3 card major showing bid with a maximum and weak doubleton in the other major. But, that is not clear without discussion and, as such, such a bid should never be trotted out for the first time in the heat of battle.

 

OMG partner made a call that we might not understand! Circle the wagons.

[msjennifer]

Perhaps it shows a maximum hand and a holding AQx, AKx, Axxxx,xx .with such a hand a Moysian major suit game may prove a better contract.

[mgoetze]

So, in the absence of discussion, the bid is clearly an announcement that your partner has such disdain for partnership and you that your partner no longer wishes to play with you.

Or maybe it shows so much respect for partner that you expect him to figure it out? (the 3M case at least, in the 4M case I agree with you.)

[Finch]

"So, in the absence of discussion, the bid is clearly an announcement that your partner has such disdain for partnership and you that your partner no longer wishes to play with you."

 

No it's not. Making bids that you haven't discussed is a compliment to partner in that you hope he or she will understand them.

There are auctions where it is incredibly dangerous to invent some system at the table, because the auction can go totally off the rails.

These are not auctions like that. The 3M call clearly doesn't stop partner bidding 3NT if he wants. The 4M call can't be anything except natural.

 

I recently came up with a bid in a sequence that we had never discussed. The auction started 2NT P 3S (minors) dbl. I bid 4H because I had KQJ10x of hearts and Qx of spades. Partner happily passed with his 2245, and we took 11 tricks after they cashed the AK of spades. This was another auction where it was obvious what 4H meant.

[GrahamJson]

I must admit that I would assume that partner had just found a heart amongst his diamonds.

[miamijd]

There are two logical treatments for 3h in your sample auction.

 

The first is a hand with (i) enough stuff to accept the game invite; (ii) a decent three-card fragment; (iii) a source of tricks in a minor suit; and (iv) a hole (xx) somewhere, either in spades or the other minor. Without (ii) - (iv), it makes more sense to bid 3nt and cross your fingers.

 

The second logical treatment is a hand with a problem in the bid suit (i.e., asking partner to go ahead to 3nt if his 4-card suit was the bid major, but warning about the bid major otherwise).

 

For a number of reasons, I think the first treatment is better, but it's a matter of partnership agreement. I'd never trot this out in a pickup even with a world-class partner. That's just silly.

 

1N-3N-anything but pass is an auction that doesn't exist.

 

Cheers,

Mike

[rhm]

You mean something like xx KQx AKxx AJxx? Maybe that's what it shows, but I just can't imagine anyone actually bidding it

Why not?

Seems to me intelligent bidding and contrary to some I find it hard to misinterpret.

If a partnership has no agreement it should assume natural within context.

Since opener has denied 4 cards in hearts and did not pass 2NT he must have a reason to suggest hearts. It should show such a hand.

Nothing else makes much sense without agreement.

 

Rainer Herrmann

[gnasher]

Why not?

Because most of the time partner will sign off in 3NT, so we'll have gained nothing but leaked some information.

 

Also, 3♥ may not even help partner much. How does he know that with xxx AJxx Qxx Kxx we belong in 4♥, but with KQx AJxx xxx xxx we belong in 3NT?

[Zelandakh]

How does he know that with xxx AJxx Qxx Kxx we belong in 4♥, but with KQx AJxx xxx xxx we belong in 3NT?

I agree with the sentiment but wonder if we would really have used Stayman with these 3433 hands (assuming no SID).