when smart has been found not that smart

[jahol]

You do not see anything special in your hand (IMPs competition, vulnerable against non-vulnerable):

 

xx---xxx---xxx---Q10xxx

 

but, believe me or not, things are going to develop very fast and you are going to have problems. Your partner is the dealer opening the auction with 1 club (SAYC). After pass from RHO and you, there is re-open double followed with 3 clubs jump call from your partner. The RHO bids 3 hearts and it is your turn.

 

Actually, this is not the problem yet, I am going to speak about. At the table, I decided, it may be better to pass. There is some chance, 3H will be the final contract. As soon as the opponents bid game, I can bid 5 clubs, what definitely should not be, in accordance with Cohen's LTT, a bad step forward.

 

Too simple reasoning.... My LHO bid five hearts doubled with my partner and passed back to me. What would you do? And...do you think that pass of three hearts was a big mistake?

[hotShot]

Simple Rule if you want to get into the auction do it "asap". I agree with your first pass.

Now with 3♣ from your partner, he should have quite a hand. 6+♣ and 18+ HCP maybe he is 2 suited or very unbalaced with additional distributional points.

Now is your turn to do something. You stated you have nothing with your first pass. And you know, that partners ♣ values have no defence value at all. Your side holds at least 11 of them and there is a good chance that one of your opps in void. This means half of his points are worthless.

Did you agree on some sort of gameforce opening? If so, why didn't your partner use it.

If your partner is not color blind he knows that your side is vulnerable, so he should obstain from lunatic bidding. So he might be even stronger, because he thought that 3♣ is possible with QT and a lot of cards in ♣ missing.

You should bid 4♣ now. Your partner should realise that you passed weak with fit the first round. So he can expect you to hold 4+♣. You avoided 3NT showing nothing but ♣ and weak. And partner know has a chance to evaluate his hand right. If he doubles now, it's his fault alone. If 4♣ goes down (more than one), it is his fault.

 

Do you realy think you can keep your opps out of game at IMPs?

With one of them void at ♣ they will go for game anytime.

 

By the way they might be preempting!

[han]

I would be tempted to bid the first time around, and I would certainly bid the second time. You don't know if 5C will make or not, but by bidding it directly you make things much harder for the opponents.

 

Total tricks doesn't work very well at the 5-level, and sacrificing when red vs white is a bad idea unless you have good hopes that you can make your contract.

 

Now that you have passed twice you'd better pass a third time!

[flytoox]

Pass. I probablby would bid 3C in the 1st round. However after pd's 3C and his dbl, I have no choice but pass.

[Guest Jlall]

I would not pass 1C. I would not pass 3H. I will pass now.

[Free]

Isn't this a "something monkey" double? :rolleyes: I'll pass

[Gerben42]

You mean the stripe-tailed ape double?

That would be if you double with the shown hand in the hope they won't get to slam now. Maybe you have a stripe-tailed ape PASS... If they redouble surely 6♣ is right.

 

I would have bid 5♣ right away.

[pbleighton]

This hand is a good argument for inverted minors. You

would have bid 3C on your first bid, describing your

hand very well (at equal vul you could bid 4C, at

favorable you could bid 5).

 

In SAYC, you must pass the first time. The second time

you should bid 4C. 5C is possible, but at unfavorable

with no singleton I would bid 4.

 

After 5H, pass.

 

Peter

[Free]

You mean the stripe-tailed ape double?

That would be if you double with the shown hand in the hope they won't get to slam now. Maybe you have a stripe-tailed ape PASS... If they redouble surely 6♣ is right.

 

I would have bid 5♣ right away.

Yes, that's the one :rolleyes:

[joker_gib]

Pass 1st time (I'm vulnerable and only bid 3♣ with a single)

 

4♣ on 3♥ but if I Pass I obviously pass on 5♥X !

 

Alain

[Guest Jlall]

This hand is a good argument for inverted minors. You

would have bid 3C on your first bid, describing your

hand very well (at equal vul you could bid 4C, at

favorable you could bid 5).

 

In SAYC, you must pass the first time. The second time

you should bid 4C. 5C is possible, but at unfavorable

with no singleton I would bid 4.

 

After 5H, pass.

 

Peter

1C p 5C? are you serious? This is just total unilateral bridge. You have a 5332 hand with a queen! partner has opened and the opps have not bid. What makes you think that this is their deal? And if it is that you arent going for a telephone number? Partner could EASILY just have some 4423 18-19 balanced hand, and im not sure how 5C will be then. wow.

 

As for this being a perfect hand for inverted minors, it really isn't. In inverted minors the jump to 3m isnt truly preemptive since all you have is limit+ and 3C. So with x xxx xxx KQJxxx what would you bid? That hand is much stronger. This is why inverted minors needs to be played with some other bid showing a constructive raise since otherwise partner will bid 3N with an 18-19 balanced hand (not what you want).

[P_Marlowe]

I pass, and I aggree with the Passes before.

 

The first is clear at red versus green, even if playing

inv. minors. your 5-3-3-2 shape is nothing to be proud

off. You could have bid 4/5 C over 3H, but then,

this should show some distribution, and if they stop in 3H,

this would have been cheaper.

 

Now be grateful, that they did bid 5H and not 4H.

Do you would have bid on, if they would have

bid 5H over your 5C bid?

Do you think you can make 5C?

You made a choice over 3H, now stick with it.

 

Just ask yourself one question:

Why did partner not open 2C, or 3C, 4C or 5C?

 

With kind regards

Marlowe

 

PS: By the way, I would have also passed a 4H bid by

the opponents.

[pbleighton]

"1C p 5C? are you serious?"

 

Only favorable at IMPs.

 

"This is just total unilateral bridge. You have a 5332 hand with a queen!"

 

With ONLY a queen.

 

"partner has opened and the opps have not bid. What makes you think that this is their deal?"

 

You have 2 hcp, and the opps likely have an 8+ major fit.

 

"As for this being a perfect hand for inverted minors, it really isn't. "

 

Agree. It should have a singleton. It is, however, very weak, perfect for a preempt.

 

"In inverted minors the jump to 3m isnt truly preemptive..."

 

Most people I know play that it is. It's certainly possible to play it differently.

 

"... since all you have is limit+ and 3C. So with x xxx xxx KQJxxx what would you bid?"

 

1NT. These are the orpan bids of inverted minors.

 

Peter

[Elianna]

As for this being a perfect hand for inverted minors, it really isn't. In inverted minors the jump to 3m isnt truly preemptive since all you have is limit+ and 3C. So with x xxx xxx KQJxxx what would you bid? That hand is much stronger. This is why inverted minors needs to be played with some other bid showing a constructive raise since otherwise partner will bid 3N with an 18-19 balanced hand (not what you want).

You could also play Grant's Hack After an inverted minor 3m bid. But then again, I STILL wouldn't be happy hearing partner ask me about my hand if I raised to the three level on this, because then we'd wind up in 4♣, opposite an 18-19 point hand, basically balanced, for no good reason. (So I'm agreeing with you, Justin.)

[mike777]

"1C p 5C? are you serious?"

 

Only favorable at IMPs.

 

"This is just total unilateral bridge. You have a 5332 hand with a queen!"

 

With ONLY a queen.

 

"partner has opened and the opps have not bid. What makes you think that this is their deal?"

 

You have 2 hcp, and the opps likely have an 8+ major fit.

 

"As for this being a perfect hand for inverted minors, it really isn't. "

 

Agree. It should have a singleton. It is, however, very weak, perfect for a preempt.

 

"In inverted minors the jump to 3m isnt truly preemptive..."

 

Most people I know play that it is. It's certainly possible to play it differently.

 

"... since all you have is limit+ and 3C. So with x xxx xxx KQJxxx what would you bid?"

 

1NT. These are the orpan bids of inverted minors.

 

Peter

1C=2C

 

Get this hand off your chest with one bid! Leave rest up to P.

 

Try 2clubs with this hand

 

2S would be invite

2D=game force

3C= weak with more shape

 

Dump inverted and WJS.

[cherdano]

IMHO inverted minors means that 2C shows limit+, and 3C a mixed raise; i.e. partner would pretty much always bid 3NT with a balanced 18-19 hand. If you play 3C = preemptive, than that's something else than the normal 2C bid and should thus not be called inverted minors.

(I know it's possible to have different agreements, but I think it is worth trying to keep a standard meaning for such frequent conventions.)

 

Btw, even if I nomrally played 3C as preemptive, I would expect more from a 3C bid at these colours.

[fred]

In my opinion, when a partnership defines their inverted 1m-3m bid, it is necessary that they answer this question:

 

What is opener expected to do with 18-19 balanced?

 

In my partnerships we answer that question with "bid something - typically 3NT".

 

As such, the hand in question would not be appropriate for an inverted raise to 3C in my regular partnerships since I would not want my partner to go on to 3NT with 18-19 balanced. I personally don't think that it is good bridge to play that 1C-3C suggests a hand this weak (ie partner is supposed to pass with 18-19), but if that's how you play then of course you should bid 3C.

 

Playing against strong opponents I probably wouldn't pass 1C with this hand if I was not vul (I would almost certainly pass if I was vul). I might psych and I might bid 3C (which is not really a psych - just a serious overbid given the agreements that I normally have about inverted raises).

 

Having passed the first time, I can't imagine not bidding 5C the second time nor can I imagine pulling partner's 5-level penalty double.

 

Fred Gitelman

Bridge Base Inc.

www.bridgebase.com

[Fluffy]

Bidding 5m when I knew it was what I Was gonna play on a previous round is the kind of thing I often did and my partner hated me for that (I will forever remember when my partner overcalled 1♣ with 1♦ with ♦AKJ and then I bid first 3 then 4 then 5....), now I try to avoid it, althou passing a partscore in the hope they get +200 is something to consider, and I've seen it working a couple of times.

[jahol]

The deal:

 

 

[hv=n=s64h862d1063cq10654&w=s3hq10743dkq974c87&e=skq109875hakj95d2c&s=saj2hdaj85cakj932]399|300|[/hv]

 

 

5 H doubled makes, 6 clubs doubled down one when played carefully, in addition, E-W may bid 6 H doubled, the final contract at many tables. We lost 11 IMPs.