Takeout double

[Cyberyeti]

I realise that this answer isn't of much practical use, but you can't really have been hoping that the rules would help you in this situation. The only good answer is to find a better game.

 

I let it go at the time, so was not expecting help, but was interested in knowing for when I met it next.

 

This was our Corwen qualifier, there wasn't a better game available.

[gordontd]

This was our Corwen qualifier, there wasn't a better game available.

Others were probably playing in the Portland Pairs.

[Cyberyeti]

Others were probably playing in the Portland Pairs.

 

Neither partner nor I fancied wearing a skirt.

 

I don't believe any norfolk pairs played in the portland.

[Zelandakh]

I am sure you look quite fetching in a dress CY. :P :lol: You could always pick up a kilt and see if they let you in with that - it's a long way from Norfolk to Scotland. :ph34r:

[VixTD]

I let it go at the time, so was not expecting help, but was interested in knowing for when I met it next.

Had I been directing, I would have adjusted the score if I thought you'd been damaged by their failure to disclose their methods. It's all very well not insisting that pairs produce two fully completed approved convention cards in certain competitions (particularly club games), but if failure to do so disadvantages innocent competitors, those competitors should be protected.

 

I suppose if they didn't have cards and alerted it instead, I'd let them do that, but I don't think it's right.

[aguahombre]

My experience is that

 

They tend to have four hearts when they double 1S, and to have 3 spades when they double 1H, but that's about it.

Your experience is with a higher level of club players than my experience. (Refusing to use a smiley face).

[Cyberyeti]

I am sure you look quite fetching in a dress CY. :P :lol: You could always pick up a kilt and see if they let you in with that - it's a long way from Norfolk to Scotland. :ph34r:

 

It almost happened worse than that.

 

Apparently at EBU events, I can't wear (tailored knee-length) shorts, but women seem to be able to wear skirts as short as they like. I was extremely tempted to find the shortest mini-skirt I could in my size (which is completely unsuited to mini-skirts) and see what happened.

[aguahombre]

 

Apparently at EBU events, I can't wear (tailored knee-length) shorts,

You must really be ugly to warrant your own personal EBU prohibition.

[Zelandakh]

The standard dress code appears to be "smart casual" from what I can see, although naturally that means something different to everyone. Clubs with a smart casual dress code traditionally do not allow trainers for example but I would imagine it would not go down well to ban those from a bridge event. I also found a newsletter from Jeremy Dhondy touching on the subject - are patched jeans still allowed? More to the point, my bet is that if a lady showed up in a pair of the shorts designed to look like a skirt that noone would say a word, which could potentially open up the EBU to a charge of sexual discrimination. I reckon you could win on this point without resorting to the full-on mini skirt approach... B-)

[gordontd]

Apparently at EBU events, I can't wear (tailored knee-length) shorts, but women seem to be able to wear skirts as short as they like.

EBU Congress and Event Terms and Conditions say:

Competitors at EBU events are expected to dress properly and appropriately – shorts should be of the ‘tailored’ variety, and sleeveless shirts are not permitted.

[gordontd]

Neither partner nor I fancied wearing a skirt.

 

I don't believe any norfolk pairs played in the portland.

That's not very surprising if the county was running a competing event at the same time.

[Cyberyeti]

The standard dress code appears to be "smart casual" from what I can see, although naturally that means something different to everyone. Clubs with a smart casual dress code traditionally do not allow trainers for example but I would imagine it would not go down well to ban those from a bridge event. I also found a newsletter from Jeremy Dhondy touching on the subject - are patched jeans still allowed? More to the point, my bet is that if a lady showed up in a pair of the shorts designed to look like a skirt that noone would say a word, which could potentially open up the EBU to a charge of sexual discrimination. I reckon you could win on this point without resorting to the full-on mini skirt approach... B-)

 

This came to a head one year where the final of an EBU event was played at a hotel where a very boozy wedding reception was taking place in the function room opposite. We were treated to the sight of numerous women the worse for wear carrying their heels, lurching all over the corridor, some with backs of dresses tucked into their knickers, but apparently we were lowering the tone by wearing (smart) shorts. I've seen people playing in shellsuits, these are apparently OK and don't lower the tone at all, the whole thing is a complete anachronism.

[gordontd]

This came to a head one year where the final of an EBU event was played at a hotel where a very boozy wedding reception was taking place in the function room opposite. We were treated to the sight of numerous women the worse for wear carrying their heels, lurching all over the corridor, some with backs of dresses tucked into their knickers, but apparently we were lowering the tone by wearing (smart) shorts. I've seen people playing in shellsuits, these are apparently OK and don't lower the tone at all, the whole thing is a complete anachronism.

It might be an anachronism if it were still true. Does it occur to you that the EBU might listen and respond to things its members draw to its attention?

[helene_t]

sleeveless shirts are not permitted.

http://ebooksbridge.com/www/ebb/images/manufacturers/ilovethisgame_LRG.jpg

[Zelandakh]

EBU Congress and Event Terms and Conditions say:

So why are sleeveless shirts not permitted but sleeveless blouses acceptable? Why are skorts allowed but shorts not? And what about those ripped jeans? And there are other aspects of dress code too that I would hope are addressed - I would much sooner face a man dressed in shorts than a woman wearing so much perfume that I can barely breathe, yet the latter is a mainstay at most bridge clubs. Has the EBU also listened and responded to such matters?

 

Finally, a link to the full regulation would be nice if you have it Gordon, as I did look around but was unable to locate the relevant document. It rather makes me wonder what the local regulations might be too. :unsure:

 

Edit: I stuck Gordon's quote into the search engine and found this - I assume that must be the correct document so it appears that non-tailored shorts and sleeveless shirts are the only aspects of attire to be singled out for attention.

[helene_t]

There are a few strong Dutch pairs that have the agreement that a t/o double can be almost any 13-16 balanced hand and that advancer, with a weak hand and no suit to bid at the 1-level, responds 1NT as a sort of nonforcing lebensohl so cater to that. I would expect such pairs to alert the double if playing in the EBU.

 

However, I don't think it is realistic to require an alert for pairs who double with a 4432 with 3 cards in the opening suit as long as advancer reacts as if it were a normal t/o double. It is a grey area when it is partnership agreement and when it is just double that took a calculated risk.

[gordontd]

So why are sleeveless shirts not permitted but sleeveless blouses acceptable? Why are skorts allowed but shorts not? And what about those ripped jeans? And there are other aspects of dress code too that I would hope are addressed - I would much sooner face a man dressed in shorts than a woman wearing so much perfume that I can barely breathe, yet the latter is a mainstay at most bridge clubs. Has the EBU also listened and responded to such matters?

 

Finally, a link to the full regulation would be nice if you have it Gordon, as I did look around but was unable to locate the relevant document. It rather makes me wonder what the local regulations might be too. :unsure:

 

Edit: I stuck Gordon's quote into the search engine and found this - I assume that must be the correct document so it appears that non-tailored shorts and sleeveless shirts are the only aspects of attire to be singled out for attention.

Indeed - which renders much of the earlier bit of your post incorrect.

 

I have not ever had any comments about perfume. I would listen to them if I did.

[Cyberyeti]

It might be an anachronism if it were still true. Does it occur to you that the EBU might listen and respond to things its members draw to its attention?

 

I had heard nothing since I raised it at the time (not that many years ago) and was told by you, Jeremy and Mr Petrie that it wasn't going to change (indeed it was stiffened at the time, in that if you turned up without long trousers, and when asked to change you couldn't, you'd be thrown out of the tournament).

 

This change could have done with more publicity.

 

And no it hadn't occurred to me that the EBU ever listened to anybody under 70 :)

[Zelandakh]

Indeed - which renders much of the earlier bit of your post incorrect.

Which parts? I found a few examples of sleeveless tops worn by women just on the EBU website and would be surprised if there were not plenty more to be seen regularly in many events. I am also confident that skorts (shorts with a wraparound that make them appear to be a skirt) would be allowed, indeed I daresay the majority of men would not even realise that this was a form of short trouser. Whether the ripped jeans come under the heading of appropriate dress is an open question that document does not answer either - they are certainly not specifically mentioned. And I am not sure which other parts of the post you might be referring to!

 

 

I have not ever had any comments about perfume. I would listen to them if I did.

You have now! ;)

[gordontd]

Which parts?

The second & third sentences. You seem to be answering regulations that once existed but don't any longer, which you know since I quoted the relevant regulation in its entirety and you went and found the source.

 

You have now! ;)

Well if you draw it to my attention at an EBU event I'll look into it. So far you've just mentioned it as a "mainstay at most bridge clubs", and they make their own regulations.

[Zelandakh]

The second & third sentences. You seem to be answering regulations that once existed but don't any longer, which you know since I quoted the relevant regulation in its entirety and you went and found the source.

Not too sure we are not talking at cross purposes here. The regulations refer to sleeveless shirts being not allowed but it sppears that this is only enforced for men whereas women can wear sleeveless tops without question. Similarly, skorts are a type of non-tailored short that I am confident would not be questioned and, indeed, I would be surprised if any lady were asked to remove or cover up skirt-style vaguely smart shorts. The main question here is what makes the women's clothes different from those of the men and why such an enforcement can be seen by the powers that be as fair.

 

 

Well if you draw it to my attention at an EBU event I'll look into it. So far you've just mentioned it as a "mainstay at most bridge clubs", and they make their own regulations.

Sadly that is unlikely to happen as I emigrated to Germany a few years back. I would be seriously amazed if you had not come across plenty of ladies wearing ridiculous amounts of perfume in all of the years you have been officiating though, so I do not think you really need to hear it from me.

[gordontd]

Not too sure we are not talking at cross purposes here. The regulations refer to sleeveless shirts being not allowed but it sppears that this is only enforced for men whereas women can wear sleeveless tops without question. Similarly, skorts are a type of non-tailored short that I am confident would not be questioned and, indeed, I would be surprised if any lady were asked to remove or cover up skirt-style vaguely smart shorts.

Despite having read the regulation, you seem to be labouring under the misapprehension that it prohibits the wearing of shorts. It doesn't, whether worn by women or men.

 

The main question here is what makes the women's clothes different from those of the men and why such an enforcement can be seen by the powers that be as fair.

I don't think they say anything about women versus men, and since I'm not aware of there having been any need to enforce them since they came into force, I don't think there can be any suggestion that they have been enforced differently in practice.

 

 

Sadly that is unlikely to happen as I emigrated to Germany a few years back. I would be seriously amazed if you had not come across plenty of ladies wearing ridiculous amounts of perfume in all of the years you have been officiating though, so I do not think you really need to hear it from me.

What I haven't come across is people complaining about them. I've had complaints about men who smell, men who scratch themselves inappropriately, men with dirty clothes or trousers showing off builder's bums, people who eat oranges, people who eat peanuts, but I don't actually recall a complaint about women with too much perfume. However, while you're picking me up on what you perceive as an unequal enforcement of regulations, is it only women whose perfume you object to?

[blackshoe]

It is a grey area when it is partnership agreement and when it is just double that took a calculated risk.

That would be true of any deviation from an agreement, would it not?

[barmar]

I have not ever had any comments about perfume. I would listen to them if I did.

The Daily Bulletins at ACBL NABCs have had a "Be Scentsitive" box for the past few years, reminding people that some people are allergic to strong perfumes.

[blackshoe]

I would imagine it works about as well as the boxes that remind people of the requirement to have two convention system cards.

 

I wonder — could a player having an adverse reaction to perfume (in the US) invoke the ADA? How about a restraining order (players wearing perfume are not permitted within 50 feet)? ;)