Do you science or blast?

[humilities]

Sectional team game, playing the best team in the room. Would you rather have a scientific auction that pinpoints the club lead, or blast your way to 3NT with no lead direction?

 

[hv=pc=n&s=sk32haq2dajt32cq2&n=saq4hk654dk987c43]133|200[/hv]

 

North dealt, the blast auction 'could have' been:

1D - 2D

2NT - 3NT

 

 

Our tortured auction was:

1D - 2D

2H - 2S

3D - 3H

4D - 5D

 

What's your preference?

 

(ps: yes, North could have played 4H, that's a separate question, and wouldn't have worked on this hand as they broke 5-1)

[wank]

i'd rather bid 5d on this hand because it's a good contract even if they cash 2 clubs, but in general i prefer quicker auctions to 3n.

[Cyberyeti]

I know if we met the hand, we'd have a different blast auction 1N-3N with no alternative and I'd expect that to be fairly normal here.

 

Presumably your IM denies 4M, and if it does, I would follow your first auction.

[mgoetze]

I would like my highly scientific auction:

 

1♣-2♣*; 2♦-2NT; 3NT

 

(2♣ transfer to diamonds, weak or GF.)

[billw55]

Interesting.

 

Minor suit auctions strongly encourage a major suit lead. So it can be tempting to pseudo-bluff a 3NT contract, *if* we have nine cashers. But here we do not: if the diamonds do not run, they will run clubs on their second chance. So 5♦ is just as good, without risking going down off the top.

 

Of course, that is looking at both hands. In real play, I would likely land in 3NT. Another possible blast auction is the very direct 1♦-3NT.

[Cyberyeti]

Interesting.

 

Minor suit auctions strongly encourage a major suit lead. So it can be tempting to pseudo-bluff a 3NT contract, *if* we have nine cashers. But here we do not: if the diamonds do not run, they will run clubs on their second chance. So 5♦ is just as good, without risking going down off the top.

 

Of course, that is looking at both hands. In real play, I would likely land in 3NT. Another possible blast auction is the very direct 1♦-3NT.

 

Well a 3-3 heart break will bail you out with 9 tricks in 3N and an underlead of ♣AK or an opp with AKJ tight are not impossible.

[gszes]

Well a 3-3 heart break will bail you out with 9 tricks in 3N and an underlead of ♣AK or an opp with AKJ tight are not impossible.

spoken like a player that would not bid the same way if the club Q was the dia Q and 5d ice cold.:)

[bigbenvic]

1♦ - 3NT 13-15 balanced with 4+D no 4cM

P

Would be my first choice. South cannot "know" which suit is worst for us but being declarer with Kxx AQx and Qx in the side suits looks better than being dummy.

[Cyberyeti]

spoken like a player that would not bid the same way if the club Q was the dia Q and 5d ice cold.:)

 

Already said it would go 1N-3N if I held the cards, and that wouldn't change with the change of Qs

 

Also the extra odd IMP (or 2 or 3) can be useful if the diamonds do run and they don't run the clubs.

[humilities]

This being a team game, I never even considered a direct 3NT over 1D. I can't imagine hiding 5 trump and 16hcp from partner and risk missing a cold 6 or 7D - I don't want to make my partner guess that well. Especially with good players at the other table.

 

I am wondering about North's rebid - I think I would have bid 2NT with those cards but seems like it's wrong on this hand. Also South's second bid could easily be NT, perhaps then it's too late?

[billw55]

hm yes, I overlooked a couple extra chances in 3NT.

[Vampyr]

I would have the same auction as Cyberyeti. But is that "sciencing" (am disgusted that it can now be used as a verb) or blasting?

[akwoo]

I'm with science at IMPs. Finding 6♦ if it's there is important, and the possibility of +460 rather than +400 is not important. Conversely, opponents are more likely to lead a passive major at MPs than at IMPs. I would blast at MPs.

 

Also, there is the semi-science possibility of 1♦-2♦-2♥-3N.

[ggwhiz]

deleted

[ggwhiz]

I'm a blaster and it doesn't take much for a major suit jack lead by them or a screw up (blocked or underlead) in the club suit after 1nt - 3nt which would be my auction.

 

Besides, even if the op's auction is forced on me I expect the opponents to have the above auction.

[Zelandakh]

Looking at both hands, a suit contract seems better than 3NT but in practise I think I would be in the 9 trick game with everyone else, either with CY's simple 1NT - 3NT or with a Puppet query thrown in. If the opps were kind enough to double a club call, that would be enough to steer clear of course. In the more general case, I would think I fall on the scientific side of things although I really feel the best idea is to have the science available but be more than willing not to use it in many cases, with 1NT auctions being a case in point.

[fourdad]

P (NOT 1D!!!)-P-1D-1H-3D-5D.

 

Not scientific or blasting.

 

Pure communication and bidding the points.

[Cyberyeti]

P (NOT 1D!!!)-P-1D-1H-3D-5D.

 

Not scientific or blasting.

 

Pure communication and bidding the points.

 

What range of notrump are you playing ? 13-15 ? For almost everybody else, one hand or the other opens 1N. Almost nobody passes flat 12s like this nowadays so you're going majorly against the field to do so.

[fourdad]

What range of notrump are you playing ? 13-15 ? For almost everybody else, one hand or the other opens 1N. Almost nobody passes flat 12s like this nowadays so you're going majorly against the field to do so.

 

You are correct about the NT....need more coffee.

 

But I pass these 12 py hands at MP, not at IMPS. Works quite well, but I tend to be contrarian, so the "almost nobody does this" is a compliment. TYVM!! Sheep get slaughtered! :)

 

PP-1NT-2C-2D-3NT.

[Caitlynne]

I answered "science" since, if you are a blaster, you use a weak NT and get to the NT game on 1NT-3NT.

 

But the reality is that 5D is a superior contract at IMPs - at any vulnerability state but especially when your side is vulnerable - to 3NT.

 

You have to pick up the diamonds for no losers to make 3NT or 5D. If you do, you score 460 or 660 for making 3NT and 400/600 for making 5D, losing 2 IMPs IF the other table plays 3NT and makes it. That is a big if because with 9 clubs outstanding, a club lead is the likely lead and they are going down. And if they go down, they are going down 1 or 2 tricks, depending on whether they pick up the diamonds (or if hearts split 3-3, but almost always down at least 2 when clubs split 6-2).

 

In 5D, the worst you are doing is down 1. So, when they go down, you are pushing or picking up 2 or 3 IMPs when you don't make it. So you have a slight advantage in diamonds.

 

But the big potential payoff comes when you do make it. If they play 3NT at the other table, they likely will be set and you will gain anywhere from 10 to 13 IMPs. And when they make it, you will lose 2 IMPs. Clearly, it is right to play 5D rather than 3NT at IMPs.

 

(The analysis is quite different at MPs.)

[humilities]

Hey all, thanks for the responses, it's been very enlightening. I'm appreciating that blasting may have more merits than I had given it (it certainly worked for our opponents on this hand).

 

The one thing I'm still puzzled about - it seems surprisingly few of you are concerned about North being unbalanced. Is north expected to bid again over 3NT with

Kx Kxxx KQxxxx x,

or other such unbalanced hands? What about with a stiff Major? Or am I overrating the fear that we may belong in 5/6D?

[Cyberyeti]

 

But I pass these 12 py hands at MP, not at IMPS. Works quite well, but I tend to be contrarian, so the "almost nobody does this" is a compliment. TYVM!! Sheep get slaughtered! :)

 

PP-1NT-2C-2D-3NT.

 

From the OP "Sectional team game" so it's IMPs. I pass the very occasional 12 count but usually only in third seat when I can see LHO's eyes out on stalks so 1N is not percentage.

[zillahandp]

Where did the 2d come from with 16? Some funny system where it is forcing? Try 2c next time, come to that where did the opening 1d come from? Five card majors and strong nt? In which case opening might be 1c ?

We would bid 1nt 2nt ( transfer to ds) 3d 3nt (mild slam try in ds) pass

One off or not! lho may have Akx(x) (x) and lead fourth highest and our opps would do the same, flat board!

[Phil]

1d 2D 2h 3N

 

2h is a weak NT. In some partnerships it's a hand that does not want to declare.

[Cyberyeti]

Where did the 2d come from with 16? Some funny system where it is forcing? Try 2c next time, come to that where did the opening 1d come from? Five card majors and strong nt? In which case opening might be 1c ?

 

What a large percentage of Americans play, strong notrump, 5M, better minor, inverted raises

 

 

We would bid 1nt 2nt ( transfer to ds) 3d 3nt (mild slam try in ds) pass

 

 

You're overselling this hand as a mild slam try, can you think of a weak no trump that gives a slam a good enough chance to be worth bidding ? 1N-3N is fine

 

 

One off or not! lho may have Akx(x) (x) and lead fourth highest and our opps would do the same, flat board!

 

Agreed in the UK, not necessarily so in the US where they mainly play strong notrump