4441 and 17 HCP

[Zelandakh]

I take your general point, but I am considering bidding 3♦ instead of 2 with that hand. Especially so given the Acol (4cM, weak NT) context, where a 1m opener tends to be unbal or 15+

There is perhaps an argument that 3♥ over 2♠ should accept the game try but show doubt over hearts within the context of Opener being weak there. I suspect most play it as showing a half-stopper but whether differing between half and full is more important than between single and double within an Acol context is a question that can probably only be answered after a little analysis.

[Cyberyeti]

I take your general point, but I am considering bidding 3♦ instead of 2 with that hand. Especially so given the Acol (4cM, weak NT) context, where a 1m opener tends to be unbal or 15+

 

I agree, I'd bid 3♦ with that (in fact I'd bid an inverted 2♦ playing what I play), but beginners tend to count points maybe adjusting for extreme intermediates.

[bkvaran]

Nobody has mentioned 3H, which should show this sort of hand. Expert treatment is that a jump in a suit when a non jump would be forcing shows a shortage. I think you are just about strong enough to do that here. However you would need to have that agreement with partner or have confidence that he would understand the bid, so probably best avoided with a random BBO partner.

 

On another point, perhaps I am old fashioned but I don't think that 2D should 100% deny a four card major, particularly a heart suit. In some cases a raise might be better for tactical reasons rather than bid a poor suit. As Terence Reeses said "I see no point on bidding bad suits on bad hands when there is a sound alternative". However I agree that doesn't seem to be the BBO norm.

 

 

Liike I wrote furter down... 3 hj is perfect for me, normally IT should promise. 5+ diamonds, but this hand is close enough.... If you dont bid 1 hearts with 4c hearts, you will never find 4-4 in hearts, because 2 hearts will (advanced level) mean hearts stoppes on The way towards 3 NT

[helene_t]

Following 1m - 2m, many pairs play that a 2M rebid shows a stopper rather than showing shape.

Yes. On the other hand, 4♠ in a 4-3 fit could still be the right place so it would be nice if 2♠ showed four.

 

Probably the best agreement is that 2♠ shows a stopper but responder can still raise with 3-card support and ruffing value:

1♦-2♦

2♠-3♠

or

1♦-2♦

2♠-3♣

3♦-3♠

which would be forcing.

[lycier]

[hv=pc=n&w=skq64h8dak95ckq86&d=w&v=0&b=8&a=1dp2dp]133|200[/hv]

 

We play weak no trump and over a 1 level suit response an opener's rebid of 1NT shows 15-17 HCP. Do I pass here? If I bid 2NT what strength am I showing?

 

For me, opener rebid any new suit at three level to show a splinter with 16+hcp, so for this hand, I would bid 3♥ as a splinter with 16+hcp.

[bridgepali]

O'ye of little faith. I see enough points between the combined hands (19+8) to make a three level strain contract with eight cards mirrored, a four level strain contract with eight cards offset by two(5/3),a three no-trump contract with one of the four card strains taking out an opponent's winner (3pts.).

 

I would make a three level bid on the expectancy that partner has 6-9 points and four cards by making the 2D bid. If my partner rebid the diamonds after I bid, I would bid 5D's. In response to my partners 2D bid I would bid 3S's to show I believe the combined hands have a minimum of 24pts. If my partner can not support the 3S bid, I would expect my partner to bid 3NT. I would not consider passing at the two level having control of over half of the hcpts.

[1eyedjack]

O'ye of little faith. I see enough points between the combined hands (19+8) to make a three level strain contract with eight cards mirrored, a four level strain contract with eight cards offset by two(5/3),a three no-trump contract with one of the four card strains taking out an opponent's winner (3pts.).

 

I would make a three level bid on the expectancy that partner has 6-9 points and four cards by making the 2D bid. If my partner rebid the diamonds after I bid, I would bid 5D's. In response to my partners 2D bid I would bid 3S's to show I believe the combined hands have a minimum of 24pts. If my partner can not support the 3S bid, I would expect my partner to bid 3NT. I would not consider passing at the two level having control of over half of the hcpts.

O ye of rose tinted spectacles. If you bid 3S and partner, who predictably lacks 4 card Spade support (having chosen not to respond 1S first time round), retreats to 4D, the weakest rebid that he could make, consistent with a 6-count, you decide to bid 5D. Having earlier in your comments judged that the 3 level, or possibly 4 level, would be safe, you effectively decide to game force unilaterally.

 

And why 3S rather than 2S? 2S would still show extras and would be forcing. Over 3S how is responder to judge whether to bid 3N without knowing which of hearts and Clubs is wide open and now having no room to enquire?

 

And all that assumes that partner reads 3S as natural. A significant population would, given that 2S would be natural and forcing, showing extras, read 3S as a splinter.