Good hands.. easy to bid?

[Oceanss]

Yesterday I watched a friend play, and they get this amazing hand. It was bewildering to see traveller on it (http://tinyurl.com/zgd8ym7), how is it possible so many people weren't able to find the slam?

Here is the hand for those that won't get shocked with traveller ;)

[hv=pc=n&s=sa3hq2daq92cat543&w=st9875ha873d87c62&n=skqj2hkj95dkj6ckq&e=s64ht64dt543cj987]399|300[/hv]

What would be optimal bidding sequence if pards played vanilla 2/1? (NS white aga red)

Thanks in advance

[Cyberyeti]

Who dealt ? (I can't view the traveller)

[ahydra]

If South is dealer, he might be forgiven for opening a strong NT to avoid a rebid problem, and North just bids 6NT.

 

North dealer:

1C 2C* (inverted)

3N 6N

 

or similar. Actually I have no idea what the correct rebid with 18-19 bal is in 2/1 :(

 

ahydra

[wank]

how is it possible so many people weren't able to find the slam?

 

 

the standard on bbo is far lower than even club bridge.

[kenrexford]

If South is dealer, he might be forgiven for opening a strong NT to avoid a rebid problem, and North just bids 6NT.

 

North dealer:

1C 2C* (inverted)

3N 6N

 

or similar. Actually I have no idea what the correct rebid with 18-19 bal is in 2/1 :(

 

ahydra

The slam miss is explained in this sequence.

 

1D = opening hand

2C = 10+

3NT = meant as 15 or so

Pass = 16+15 = 31, not quite enough, 4NT would obv be Blackwood

 

Sick, but...

 

Other permitations exist, where North screws around but no one pulls the trigger.

[ahydra]

4NT would obv be Blackwood

 

Obviously! :ph34r:

 

ahydra

[Zelandakh]

The majority are not playing 2/1 of any variety so a number of auctions present themselves. Ken already mentioned 1♦ - 2♣; 3NT. Some other example possibilities that spring to mind:-

1♦ - 3NT (meant as 16-18, taken as 13-15 and North did not want to go further without an ace)

1♦ - 2♦ (meant as inverted, taken as weak); 3NT

1♣ (could be short) - 2♣ (meant as inverted, taken as weak); 3NT

1♣ (could be short) - 1♦; 1♥ - 3NT (again with North unwilling to bid on with no aces)

1♦ - 2♣ (meant as GF, taken as INV+); 2♥ - 3♦; 3NT

1♦ - 2♣; 2NT (meant as 18-19, taken as 12-14) - 3NT

 

As wank wrote, the standard of play on BBO is often quite low and that is compounded by strangers playing together without any agreements whatsoever, so you should never be surprised at a good slam not being bid. This is simply normal play.

[Oceanss]

So, sorry, I don't know why diagram didn't show the details ..

So this is random IMP game in Main club, N is the dealer, EW are vulnerable.

[gszes]

2/1

1d

2c

4n 18-19 bal if wanted to blackwood clubs have to bid 3c first to set trumps.

6n seems like an easy 6n to me

[mikestar13]

Off Topic: Can't avoid mentioning that this is a gimme for big clubbers, South opens 1♣ and North has the values for 6NT right there (though he will go slow--a grand could easily be on if South has all four aces and a little extra). Of course there are other hands where the 2 over one bidders laugh at us....

[Zelandakh]

Off Topic: Can't avoid mentioning that this is a gimme for big clubbers, South opens 1♣ and North has the values for 6NT right there (though he will go slow--a grand could easily be on if South has all four aces and a little extra). Of course there are other hands where the 2 over one bidders laugh at us....

After South opens 1♣ (out of turn), the opps do not accept it and now you have a guess. The natural auctions seem a lot clearer than this to me... :lol:

[oryctolagi]

Playing Acol/Benji, it's one short for a 2NT opening - but if I (not being an expert) had a couple of 10's as well as 19 points, I'd open 2NT, counting each ten as ½ point. Logical? I wouldn't open benji 2♣ with a flat hand and no aces. Failing those, open 1S (I'd not go 1H ... 1S because for a reverse I think you need two better suits). Then follow with 2NT and see what comes of it...

[SelfGovern]

The auctions showin for those who get to slam are pretty awful, too.

1N - 6N? That's going to be fun opposite partner's 16-count.

1C - 3C (forcing?); 3N - 4N; 5!D - 6!C; 6N

 

Or one that makes sense if the bidders both know that 2N is 13-15:

1C - 2N; 4N - 5S; 6N

[zillahandp]

From sputh 1c, 1h 1nt (15/16) 6nt.

Frm north 1h, 2c 3nt, 6nt.

It is clear that they have 34 pts iwhoever opens minmum and 35 max. End of. Rest is incmpetence.

[kenberg]

Wank mentioned that the standard of play on BBO is not high. The fact that three of the pairs playing NT, including one pair that was in 6NT, failed to take 12 tricks supports this view. Fewer than 12 tricks is more or less impossible. You win the opening lead, lead a heart, and you spread your hand.

 

OK, but still we could look with interest. On BBO I play with people that I don't know and have few agreements with. It can cause problems.

 

If we assume 2/1 I believe a reasonable auction is

1D-2C-2NT-3NT-4NT-6NT.

Actually even SAYC claims that the 2C bidder promises another bid unless opener immediately rebids at game level, but SAYC does not discuss the 2NT-3NT-4NT extension of this.

 

 

Here is why I think this is a reasonable way to go.

 

Let's first look at possible South hands. Suppose he is 3=4=1=5 with gf values. An auction that begins 1D-1H-1S or 1D-1H-1NT makes it difficult to show the shape. Responder could, over 1D-1H-1NT, try 2C (artificial for almost everyone) and then, later, try to convince partner that this is on four hearts and five clubs, but it could get tricky w/o a lot of prior discussion. So, with this hypothetical S hand, he starts with 2C. At least I would.

 

 

Now N, assuming he realizes that 2C does not deny four cards in a major, has to come up with a bid. 2H would almost certainly give partner a distorted idea of his diamond length. 2NT seems right, allowing partner to show his four card major if he has one.

 

So 1D-2C-2NT seems like a reasonable start, after which 3NT-4NT-6NT should work assuming S understands that the 2NT was either on 12-14 or 18-19.

 

I am not sure just what 1D-2C-3NT ought to show, but it takes up a lot of room when the 2C response can be made on a large number of different hands. I would avoid making such a call unless it had very well-defined boundaries. Opener had better be very confident the hand belongs in some number of NT.

[dave_beer]

My suggestion

1♦ - 2♣

2NT¹ - 3♦

4NT² - 6NT³

 

 

(1) 12-14 or 18-19. With 15-17 either open 1NT or rebid 3NT which I think should usually show 3=3=5=2

(2) 18-19 and no interest in ♦ contract

(3) 18+16 = 34 should be enough

[neilkaz]

What happens on BBO here is that many of the pairs are pickups and not from the same part of the world so understandings and systems are different. They aren't playing 2/1 GF in general and no one can ever bid 4NT as a raise as it is always Blackwood.

[mikestar13]

After South opens 1♣ (out of turn), the opps do not accept it and now you have a guess. The natural auctions seem a lot clearer than this to me... :lol:

 

With North dealer, North opens 1♣ and South knows slam is good ...

[Zelandakh]

With North dealer, North opens 1♣ and South knows slam is good ...

You wouldn't open the North hand without the ♥K?! :blink:

[mikestar13]

You wouldn't open the North hand without the ♥K?! :blink:

 

Yes, a Precision 1♣ opening lacking a heart control is possible but not likely. South will investigate controls, knowing from the get-go that the values for slam are present. There are 32 HCP combined hands with fourteen of more playing tricks that don't make slam because the missing 8 HCPare two aces.

 

As for the exact North hand with ♥K converted into ♥x, no I would open the resulting 16 point piece of s*** with 1♣ even playing a Precision version that opens flat 16's 1♣. (Disclosure: I emphatically do NOT belong to the Never Downgrade school.):rolleyes:

[kenberg]

One more thought on this. The OP posed the question "how is it possible so many people weren't able to find the slam?"

 

Looking over the bidding sequences, I think one answer is that some were playing conventions that they either had not agreed to or did not understand. For example, one auction went 1D-2D-3NT-pass. No doubt 2D was inverted (not my choice but it was bid). Now what was 3NT? Imo, 3NT is a balanced hand hand too strong to open 1NT. I believe that this is the usual meaning of 3NT after an inverted minor raise. I also know not everyone agrees. If they have not discussed this, they should probably not play inverted minors. Conventions are, or can be, useful. But not if there is no agreement on the follow-up.

 

Another pair had the auction 1C-3D-3NT-Pass. I suppose 1C was "could be short" but I have no idea what 3D was. Possibly it showed five clubs.

 

 

There is a lot to be said for KISS when playing on-line.