Using weak NT, to invite or not with 16 when P responds 1NT?

[kieran c]

Playing weak NT, 5card Majors, MPs, none vul.

 

2 passes to me, ♠AKT8 ♥Q83 ♦A5 ♣QJ75.

I open 1♣, partner responds 1NT (showing 6-9).

Should I invite with 2NT?

Or are the chances of finding partner with 9hcp too low to justify?

[mycroft]

That depends. What's your range for 1NT? Mine is 8-10. I invite. I have a problem when the minors are switched, because now it's 6-9 again, but.

[Stephen Tu]

No, but depends on the range obviously. There's a lot to be said for lowering the 1nt response range to 5-8 when playing wk nt as it is in K-S. Then you don't worry about missing game with 16 opposite 9. Stronger hands can bid the other minor or make an inverted raise.

[steve2005]

There is something to be said for 8-10 or KS method which I thought was 5-7 but is 5-8. Which method is better depends on the rest of your system. The main thing is to better define 1N and bid 1D with no other bid.

More interesting is after 1D opening. KS advocates bidding a 3-card major on some hands, a no-no in ACBL. Anyways, is a more of a problem after 1♦ than 1♣.

[kieran c]

That depends. What's your range for 1NT? Mine is 8-10. I invite. I have a problem when the minors are switched, because now it's 6-9 again, but.

Of course I should have clarified, 1NT by responder is 6-9 (I have now amended original post to show this).

[kieran c]

No, but depends on the range obviously. There's a lot to be said for lowering the 1nt response range to 5-8 when playing wk nt as it is in K-S.

K-S is .....?

[Zelandakh]

K-S is .....?

See:

http://www.bridgeguys.com/Conventions/kaplan_sheinwold_bidding_system.html

and

http://www.bridgehands.com/Conventions/Kaplan_Sheinword_KS_System.htm

[gordontd]

Playing weak NT, 5card Majors, MPs, none vul.

 

2 passes to me, ♠AKT8 ♥Q83 ♦A5 ♣QJ75.

I open 1♣, partner responds 1NT (showing 6-9).

Should I invite with 2NT?

Or are the chances of finding partner with 9hcp too low to justify?

The problem is that partner will accept with 8hcp and not just with 9.

[helene_t]

Opposite 6-9 I would pass but this is obviously close.

 

After a 1♣ opening it shouldn't be a problem since the 1NT response is not needed. You can always respond 2♣ (inverted) or 1♦. So use the 1NT response for something convenient.

 

But after a 1♦ opening you do indeed have this problem. I prefer 1NT to mean "to play opposite 15-16". Hence limited to a bad 9-count.

[rmnka447]

Since you're playing weak (presume 12-14) NT. It's entirely right to open 1 ♣ with this hand.

 

Having played K-S (Kaplan-Sheinwold -- weak NT, 5 card majors with 2/1, inverted minors) reasonably successfully for 40+ years, there are some accomodations you learn to make to improve your results. You might want to strongly consider some of these if you play in an area (US?) where the majority of your opponents are playing strong NTs. Here are some things to think over:

 

- K-S made some adjustments to the NT response ranges making a 1 NT 5-bad 8 HCP rather than 6-9 HCP. Opener only raises to 2 NT with an absolute maximum 1 NT rebid hand (good 17 HCP). With less, opener passes. The 2 NT response is roughly the same as a hand you'd raise to 2 NT with over a strong NT nominally good 9 - terrible 11. A 3 NT response is better than that,

 

- Since a 1 NT response denies a major, responder should try to respond 1 ♦ whenever possible with an absolute minimum response to allow opener the opportunity to rebid 1 NT with a flat 15-17 hand. So with ♠ Kxx ♥ J10x ♦ xxxx ♣ Qxx bid 1 ♦. But also consider it with with ♠ Kxx ♥ J10x ♦ xxx ♣ Qxxx. Now, if opener rebids 1 NT, you're likely on a par with the strong NTers,

 

- Likewise, when opener knows that a 1 NT rebid will normally be made, opener should try to open 1 ♣ when ever possible. So with ♠ Kx ♥ KJx ♦ AKJx ♣ xxxx or ♠ Kxxx ♥ KJx ♦ AKx ♣ Jxx, prefer 1 ♣ to 1 ♦. That opens up more opportunities for responder to bid 1 ♦ and allow opener a 1 NT rebid, and,

 

- On some hands 4-3-3-3 where you might consider not bidding your 4 card major over a minor in a strong NT system, you should bid the major in this system to again allow opener maximum opportunity to rebid 1 NT.

 

Obviously, if you a balanced 15-17 with a 5 card ♦ suit, you have to bid 1 ♦ and accept that responder will be forced to respond 1 NT on some hands and play 1 NT in the opposite direction as most opponents

 

The only minimum range opener that's opened in a minor is an unbalanced minimum hand. So after 1 m - 1 NT, opener simply rebids the opening minor to get out of NT.

[kuhchung]

pass, not close

 

don't feel like playing 2N with 16 opp 6-7 and i'll live with not playing 3N with 16 opp 8-9

 

as an aside, how do you show 18-19 in this system? edit: oh i guess you just bash 3N

[gszes]

if your p will bid up the line (increasing the chance you can bid 1n) then you have a definite club fit. Once that happens it becomes decently safe to reverse with 2s. Most of the time p will meekly trundle back to 3c but sometimes they will be able to bid 2n or 3n or 3d or 3h and we can reach 3n. Works almost as well when you open 1d but the safety net of a dia fit does not exist for sure. It is MP though so missing game sometimes might be fine since you are in the top scoring mp spot and who knows if the opps will stretch themselves into a penalty if you pass 1n and then x to show extra values. Partnership temperment is important here so go with what you both like the best. he better you become defending the more you will pass and hope the opps overreach.