Tough slam to find

[mgoetze]

[hv=sn=doru77&s=SJ63HK863D754CJ92&wn=mgoetze&w=SAKQ752HAT5DKQCA5&nn=caky_&n=S9HQ972D9863CKQT8&en=Hyperon&e=ST84HJ4DAJT2C7643&d=s&v=o&b=59&a=P2CP2DP2S(GF with spades)P3S(positive)P4C(cue)P4D(cue)P4H(Last Train)P4SPPP&p=CQC3C2CASAS9S4S3SKH7S8S6&c=12]640|480[/hv]

As you can see slam is pretty good, but I think it can't be found with simple natural methods (taking suggestions though). Can you find it with your favorite system?

[kenrexford]

Opener can count to 11 if diamonds are not unlucky 2-2. I think he should make another move after 4S. 5D really makes Responder's hand grow up.

[mgoetze]

No guarantee 4♦ isn't a singleton.

[mikestar13]

Woolsey-style Precision:

 

1♣-1♦

1♠-2♦

3♠-4♦

6♠

 

1♣ = 16+

1♦ = 0-7

1♠ = 4+ spades unbalanced, may have longer minor, forcing.

2♦ = 5-7, exactly 3 spades.

3♠ = Agrees spades, forcing to game.

4♦ = Qbid.

6♠ = Slam has to be good, grand not possible barring miracles.

[kenrexford]

No guarantee 4♦ isn't a singleton.

2C-2D

2S-4D

 

Responder doesn't have a singleton.

[mike777]

I agree this is a tough slam. I think east bid fine.

 

 

West might try 5d over 4s but tough, not easy but I feel west has just enough extras to justify 5d....tougher at the table. granted I make the assumption that 4d was NOT shortness and 2d promised a random ace or king and 3s promised something more..a lot of assumptions

[foobar]

1♣ (1)....1♠ (2)

2♣ (3)....2♦ (4)

2♥ (3)...3♣ (5)

3♦ (3)...3♥ (6)

3♠ (7)....4♣ (8)

4♦ (9)...4♠ (10)

6♠

 

1: 16+ any

2: Balanced without 4♠ OR 5+♦

3: Relay

4: Balanced hand

5: 4-4 minors

6: 3=2=4=4

7: QP ask (A=3, K=2, Q=1)

8: 3 QPs; at this point we know holding must be KQ♥ / KQ♣ or A♦

9: Parity Scan

10: Odd ♦ honour parity; A♦ and nothing else per force

 

Note that we could have found out the J♦ before reaching 6♠ as well, but shooting for 7 seems rather excessive on this hand.

[nullve]

2♦-2♥ (canapé preempt in S / Rule of 31+, 5+ S, unbal. // P/C)

2N-3♣ (Rule of 31+, either 5S4H, 6+S4+H, or 1-suited w/ 6+ S // relay)

3♦-3♥ (1-suited // relay, usually 2+ S)

3♠-3N (short C or 6(32)2 // relay)

4♣-4♦ (6(32)2 // relay)

4♠-4N (6322 // RKC(S))

5♣-5♦ (1 or 4 key cards // SQ ask)

5♠-5N (SQ, no HK // CK ask (now hoping for AKQxxx-Axx-KQ-AK))

6♣-6♠ (no CK // to play)

P

 

Not particularly elegant, but it helps to know that Opener has 6+ S and that he could not have a weaker hand, point-wise, for his bidding up to and including 4♠.

 

(I've stolen the '(--- // ---)' notation from Fluffy.)

[wank]

no blame for west. can't pinpoint jt of diamonds. even opposite ajxx slam's marginal without the doubleton heart (would need to cross on 3rd round of spades).

 

east might well have another go on general hand quality, but that depends how traditional you are with your 2c openers. i believe in 2c showing good play for game opposite xxx xxx xxx xxx and a useless 13th card (the west hand qualifies but only by a small margin - 9 tricks for 3nt).

[gszes]

Homegrown read and use at your own peril. I have always been irritated no mechanism was in place to discover responder "length" in these auctions. Cue bidding has always been important and splinter (by opener) loses a lot of its accuracy when there is even a 5 card suit around much less a 6 card suit. So I chose 3n to mean P I have all side suits controlled (and I am slammish) do you have any 4+ card suits (with at least one of top 3 honors)? Note that an unlimited responder might be able to take control of the bidding just knowing that much about openers hand. It is not a cure all but vastly increases the number of hands that can be bid accurately with little/no risk and not too much to memorize. I realize opener may have a second suit but it is far more likely responder will have one than opener. Opener's inquiries begin with suit quality (until repsonder's quality is known) and followed by length. If opener skips a step then they are interested in length alone.

 

responder bids the appropriate suit. This hand would be bid as follows (after 3s):

3N I have all side suits controlled do you have any 1+or 2 top 3 honor side suits with 4+ cards?

4d I have 4+ dia with at least 1 of the top 3 honors (we have bypassed clubs since no honors)

4h suit quality?

5h 2 of top 3 with JT

5n how many diamonds

6c 4 note that opener can not now bid 6d as that is to play

6h A form of last train asking if responder has an unshown side K to bid 7, there will not always be room to make this bid but it must be used if 6n seems a sure thing. Failure to use it (when available) means 6n is something of a gamble.

6s I have nothing special

6n

pass when last train was not available opener should only bid 6n (vs a suit contract) when they feel it will be cold for 12 tricks responder can still bid 7 if they have an undisclosed side K.

 

*note that in all cases opener steps must not rebid their agreed trump suit (this is construed as a sign off) while responder should be ok with it (unless they want to take control)

responder steps are as follows and remember responder has already promised at least 1 of top 3 honors and opener has at least 1 (controls in all side suits)

1st = no extra

next step by opener asks about JT

neither

T no J

J no T

JT

2nd = 2 of top 3 No J or T

3rd = 2 of top 3 T no J

4th = 2 of top 3 J no T

5th = JT

[Zelandakh]

I am with Ken and think 5♦ over 4♠ gives an excellent description of the West hand. Also your descriptions of 2♦ and 4♣ are incomplete and have some bearing.

 

Finally, to nullve, I would suggest you not use 3NT as a relay, particularly in an auction with no guaranteed fit. It is also easy to rearrange a couple of cards to give a similar auction to a hopeless slam so I am not convinced this is an improvement over natural. I suspect the Moscito and IMPrecision auctions would be a lot better here (my system's auction is similar to natural except that Responder's strength is slightly more accurately known).

[nullve]

Finally, to nullve, I would suggest you not use 3NT as a relay, particularly in an auction with no guaranteed fit.

Yes. So 3♥ guarantees a fit unless Responder is strong enough to deal with the consequences of not having one.

 

It is also easy to rearrange a couple of cards to give a similar auction to a hopeless slam so I am not convinced this is an improvement over natural.

I also think that a regular partnership playing standard should be able be able to bid the slam with some confidence.

 

I suspect the Moscito and IMPrecision auctions would be a lot better here (my system's auction is similar to natural except that Responder's strength is slightly more accurately known).

My system is less ambitious than these on slam deals.

[Jinksy]

2C-2D

2S-4D

 

Responder doesn't have a singleton.

 

What does responder do over 2♠ with eg xxx KQxxx x Kxxx?

[kenrexford]

What does responder do over 2♠ with eg xxx KQxxx x Kxxx?

 

If you don't splinter, and then bid 4♦ over 4♣, and then hear 4♥ from partner, you don't bid 4♠ to play.