What did I do to deserve this?

[oryctolagi]

OK I might be effectively blacklisted out of BBO after this. Maybe I should just give up. I was south.

[hv=pc=n&s=st76ha3daq87ca543&n=skq54hkt8d93cjt86&d=s&v=0&b=11&a=1nppd2dp2hp3cp3sp3np6ddppp]266|200[/hv]

My bidding was rather poor, I admit, but I tried for the best. I supposed I was being punished in some way?

With -15 IMPs, the only effect is yet another blacklisted partner. :(

[mgoetze]

What do you want us to tell you? You have about as much business bidding 2♦ as partner has bidding 6♦.

[billw55]

1NT should be your last bid unless forced. 2♦ was very bad.

 

Not sure what your partner was doing either. It looks like an auction by two beginners. In which case, blacklisting each other is counterproductive. Try to learn from your errors rather than blame. No need to quit!

[kenrexford]

2D is bad, but not insane. You risk a bad result if partner passes like he should, but maybe you win when he leads a diamond against 2H. I might try this with a very understanding partner. There are no very understanding partners online.

[oryctolagi]

So I made a poor bid. Am I the only one? What the ***** was I supposed to do next?

The partner in question has his/her profile marked 'expert'. Mine isn't.

[neilkaz]

I presume you being from the UK are playing weak NT here or else PD's failure to invite game is silly. I don't care for 2♦ and while bad it isn't super awful. But what would xx of the balancing x mean? Maybe having a way to show playable minor suits after the balancing x would be useful.

 

Anyhow, back on topic. Your PD's 2♥ is nuts. Why not run to his 4 card ♠ suit?. PD should pass your 3♣ 100% of the time. His 3♠ is awful, but your 3NT bid just as bad. Just let him play what sb a 43 fit and he isn't doubled yet.

 

His 6♦ bid after 3NT is from another galaxy.

 

I'd blacklist him as well since he is a self rated expert and I have no tolerance for idiocy like his bidding.

 

However, your bidding this hand after 1NT ranges from poor to awful. I'd not blacklist you, but I'd certainly leave the table if I could (ie not in a tourney or committed set game) to find another pd.

[billw55]

So I made a poor bid. Am I the only one? What the ***** was I supposed to do next?

The partner in question has his/her profile marked 'expert'. Mine isn't.

You were supposed to pass instead of bidding 2♦. After that, we don't know what would happen.

 

There were at least two further chances to salvage this: north could have passed out 3♣, or south could have passed out 3♠. But neither player knew what their partner's bids meant, and you see the result.

 

Your partner's bidding certainly does not indicate an expert: all his bids except his original pass were bad. Some people think it is fun to criticize/insult/boot/blacklist others. Real experts do not behave this way.

 

However, your bidding this hand after 1NT ranges from poor to awful. I'd not blacklist you, but I'd certainly leave the table if I could (ie not in a tourney) to find another pd.

This depends on expectations. If oryctolagi honestly rates himself as beginner or novice, then I accepted that before playing the hand, and leaving in huff would not make sense. I would try some helpful advice instead.

 

 

 

[eagles123]

yes 2D was wrong but the first couple of responses were way too harsh for my taste opposite someone that identifies as b/i.

 

In my opinion something that a lot of newer players fail at is realising when they've already bid their hand. Here you've shown your hand with your 1N opening, possibly with like xx xxx AKQJT Qxx (assuming a weak nt) you could bid 2d in this situation, but it should be a really rare bid. It's a bit like when people open say 2s weak it goes 3d on their left and passes round to them and they bid 3s for no reason at all.

[kenrexford]

FWIW, 2H is a curious call, as to what it should show. It does not logically show just hearts, as that makes no sense. 4414 or 4405 is possible, unless Garbage was an option. Something like 3406 might be possible, as well. Or, perhaps 2H should be a card with excellent diamond help, trying to backdoor a 24-point 3N with a diamond trick source.

[steve2005]

2D is bad, but not insane. You risk a bad result if partner passes like he should, but maybe you win when he leads a diamond against 2H. I might try this with a very understanding partner. There are no very understanding partners online.

Sorry esteemed one 2♦ is insane. For all you know it's our hand, 1NX makes and we can punish the opponents in all suits.

OK maybe I'm dreaming but my point is let partner decide that's what they are there for.

 

 

[oryctolagi]

Let's get this straight. I fully accept that 2♦ was wrong - why do you have to rub it in? (remarks like "I'd leave the table" ... "insane" etc. etc. are hardly likely to encourage me to stick with BBO. Do people really want me out of here on the strength of one or two bad bids? :angry: )

 

I had indeed - in a 'senior' moment - forgotten the mantra "do not bid again after 1NT without hearing from partner".

 

Perhaps my bigger mistake was to make this public. One learns....

 

My partner's 6♦ was a 'punishment' bid. No other way to describe it. Clearly pre-meditated and designed to discompose, more, to humiliate me (since I would be the one playing it out, and it gave me no opportunity to retreat to clubs - I presume that if I'd gone 7♣ he'd have gone 7♦). I suppose the intention was to force me off the table - at which he succeeded - after I'd played out this ridiculous contract.

 

So does BBO have a policy on 'punishment' bids? As I understand it, people who jump to, say, 7NT merely to disrupt the play, are come down upon heavily.

[diana_eva]

Players who spoil scores on purpose can be punished by abuse@bridgebase.com (either they are banned from playing pick-up games, or from tournaments, or banned from BBO for a period of time, depending on how bad their behaviour is and where it occurred). If you suspect this player consistently makes spite bids you can check his hand records and report him to abuse. However if it's a one-time thing, he got pissed just this once because of the bad bidding, he probably will get away with a warning.

 

I thought you wanted feedback on what went wrong, and how to avoid it in the future. If you just want your random partner to be punished for making a "punishment bid", the proper way is to report to abuse.

[kenrexford]

Sorry esteemed one 2♦ is insane. For all you know it's our hand, 1NX makes and we can punish the opponents in all suits.

OK maybe I'm dreaming but my point is let partner decide that's what they are there for.

Well, calculated insanity.

[Vampyr]

Anyhow, back on topic. Your PD's 2♥ is nuts.

 

Maybe he thought that 2♦ was a transfer...

[steve2005]

Let's get this straight. I fully accept that 2♦ was wrong - why do you have to rub it in?

You posted this, you got our opinion. In my opinion taking any bid is wrong after 1N virtually describing your hand to partner 12-14 balanced. I think it important to know why 2D wrong?

eagles123 http://www.bridgebase.com/forums/public/style_images/BridgeBase_Ehren_v1/user_popup.png thinks 2♦ possible with a very strong 5-card diamonds. I would still disagree but could see it being possible.

kenrexford thinks bidding on 4♦ is ok, I just can't see, this is easily could be a 4-2 or 4-1 fit, why even bother.

 

but the real point you should pick up is that every bid your expert partner made is even worse the last bid isn't bridge and Diana_eva told what you could do about it.

[oryctolagi]

Players who spoil scores on purpose can be punished by abuse@bridgebase.com (either they are banned from playing pick-up games, or from tournaments, or banned from BBO for a period of time, depending on how bad their behaviour is and where it occurred). If you suspect this player consistently makes spite bids you can check his hand records and report him to abuse. However if it's a one-time thing, he got pissed just this once because of the bad bidding, he probably will get away with a warning.

 

I thought you wanted feedback on what went wrong, and how to avoid it in the future. If you just want your random partner to be punished for making a "punishment bid", the proper way is to report to abuse.

Thank you. A positive reply at last! I shall let the matter rest, but maybe keep an eye on the person concerned. I am quite happy with being corrected about my errors, but not in this way!

[glen]

The 2♥ bid looks like North expected 2♦ would show ♦s and a higher (in a method where XX would force 2♣ to show any long suit). This seems silly in a pick up partnership.

 

6♦ was pure spite. Play it out, move on to next partner, next hand. Even posting here about it takes time away from enjoyable bridge activities.

[barmar]

I thought you wanted feedback on what went wrong, and how to avoid it in the future. If you just want your random partner to be punished for making a "punishment bid", the proper way is to report to abuse.

I thought he was just venting. I don't think any feedback is really necessary.

[rmnka447]

So I made a poor bid. Am I the only one? What the ***** was I supposed to do next?

The partner in question has his/her profile marked 'expert'. Mine isn't.

You already described your hand. But partner's hand is unknown.

 

Over a weak NT, it could be anywhere from 0 HCP to a good 10/bad 11 count. Why not bring your partner into the decision making process? With partner's actual hand, partner will pass if the double is passed around to him/her. 1 NT doubled with a nice 23 between the two hands looks like a pretty good spot to be. But chances are you won't be there. If RHO has a 13/14 count, LHO has about a 3/4 count and will be under great pressure to run out of 1 NT doubled. And on a not too infrequent basis, the opponents will stumble into a bad place -- like here if LHO bid 2 ♠ and partner doubled for penalties.

 

If partner's hand is only 3 or 4 points, partner can redouble to start your side running from 1 NT. Then you can bid your 4 card suits up the line the try to find a fit. Here, you'd bid 2 ♣ and partner with 4 ♣ would pass leaving you in an 8 card fit. Yes, ♦ are a better 4 card suit, but when running you want to take your best shot at finding a 7 or 8 card fit at as low a level as possible. Bidding ♦ rather than ♣ first may shut you out of a good ♣ fit. If you bid 2 ♣ and partner instead has 4 ♦, partner may bid 2 ♦ and voila you've arrived in a fit.

 

Your partner on this hand isn't without blame either. If I were your partner, I'd pass 2 ♦ figuring you had run out to a 5 card ♦ suit. I have no idea where your partner's 2 ♥ bid came from, very strange. If partner bid anything, it probably should have been 2 ♠. Then over 2 ♠, your right action would be to pass. You've found a 7 card fit and any further bid raises the level of the contract and potentially the level of the penalty incurred.

 

There are some things to be learned from this hand --

 

o If you've described your hand, then let partner help decide where to play. Partner knows pretty much what you have, you don't know what partner has,

 

o If you side is willing to pass out 1 NT, if you run, try to land in a fit as cheaply as possible, don't bid on hoping for a better fit,

 

o If your side is willing to pass out 1 NT, 3 NT is almost never right to bid, and,

 

o As one expert said many years ago "Pass is one of the most underrated calls in bridge".

[Vampyr]

 

If partner's hand is only 3 or 4 points, partner can redouble to start your side running from 1 NT. Then you can bid your 4 card suits up the line the try to find a fit.

 

Without discussion? For reals?

[oryctolagi]

I thought he was just venting. I don't think any feedback is really necessary.

You may have a point there. OK, yes, you do have a point. But perhaps it's better to vent one's spleen here on the forum, rather than at the table? I believe I have reasonable self-control at the table. At any rate, I haven't sunk to the level of name-calling that, regrettably, I've witnessed from others.

 

I did leave the table in question without saying the usual 'goodbye's and 'thank you's. That in itself probably conveyed something of my thoughts.

 

Anyway, thanks for all the tips about how to play the hand, but I don't really need that. I know now that if 1NTx had been passed out, I'd probably have made, or at worst 1 down, and avoided a lot of trouble. My post was really about attitudes rather than about bridge.

[steve2005]

Without discussion? For reals?

Partner passed a weak 1N so has virtually 0% interest in game. So, if 1N X comes back to partner with a good hand should pass and unless both partners are an absolute maximum this will be a top board.

The corollary is that XX is a an attempt escape with no clear place to play.

 

For real.

 

[Vampyr]

Partner passed a weak 1N so has virtually 0% interest in game. So, if 1N X comes back to partner with a good hand should pass and unless both partners are an absolute maximum this will be a top board.

The corollary is that XX is a an attempt escape with no clear place to play.

 

Or vice versa, ie XX is a escape to a 5-card suit. Or maybe XX shows majors or mnors, as per Woolsey. Or even XX shows a max and is a suggestion to play if partner has 9-10 HCP.

 

But none of these apply LOL because partner and I are both playing the method you suggest without having discussed it. Of course opener is not really invited to do anything.

[billw55]

Let's get this straight. I fully accept that 2♦ was wrong - why do you have to rub it in? (remarks like "I'd leave the table" ... "insane" etc. etc. are hardly likely to encourage me to stick with BBO. Do people really want me out of here on the strength of one or two bad bids? :angry: )

 

I had indeed - in a 'senior' moment - forgotten the mantra "do not bid again after 1NT without hearing from partner".

 

Perhaps my bigger mistake was to make this public.

In fairness, when you post a subject on a discussion forum, it is predictable that it will be discussed.

 

Were some posters were too harsh? Perhaps, but you did choose the general forum. This makes a difference. If you are interested in more gentle, softball replies, you can get them in the beginner forum.

 

My partner's 6♦ was a 'punishment' bid. No other way to describe it. Clearly pre-meditated and designed to discompose, more, to humiliate me (since I would be the one playing it out, and it gave me no opportunity to retreat to clubs - I presume that if I'd gone 7♣ he'd have gone 7♦). I suppose the intention was to force me off the table - at which he succeeded - after I'd played out this ridiculous contract.

I tend to agree, that is the most plausible interpretation of 6♦. It is also possible that the player is just really bad, although bad players would generally be happy to get out in 3NT.

 

 

 

[steve2005]

Or vice versa, ie XX is a escape to a 5-card suit. If u have a 5-card suit why would you not bid it? is usually a minor,

Or maybe XX shows majors or mnors, as per Woolsey. I believe that convention is for direct seat. Why leave out hands 4-4 in minors or 4-4 in majors.

 

Or even XX shows a max and is a suggestion to play if partner has 9-10 HCP. With 9-10 hcp is clear pass for a top. The odds of making game are very slim to risk a top. Maybe opps will let you play 1MXX or run to something you can penalize buy 180 or better will be a good score why risk it?

 

But none of these apply LOL because partner and I are both playing the method you suggest without having discussed it. Of course opener is not really invited to do anything. have played this method with and without discussion and never had a mess-up for over 30 years.