How to estimate for this double?

[lycier]

I remembered a JEC hand in which I can't understand his passing.

[hv=pc=n&s=sa963hkq2d864cq86&d=s&v=n&b=15&a=p4hdp?]400|300[/hv]

 

Assume you are south,after double,would you bid 4♠ or pass?

What's this double? I think it is takeout or cooperative penalty double.

If you think it is takeout, it is reasonable for you to bid 4♠.

If you think it is cooperative penalty double, it is reasonable for you to pass.

So I have been wondering how to estimate for it.

 

Now I would give everyone JEC hand for reference.

[hv=http://www.bridgebase.com/tools/handviewer.html?sn=JEC&s=SA963HKQ2D864CQ86&wn=&w=SKHJT98543DAQT52C&nn=smispi&n=SQJT7HA76DK97CAK5&en=&e=S8542HDJ3CJT97432&d=s&v=n&b=&a=P4HDPPP&p=CAC2C6H3HTH6S2HQC8H4C5C3DAD7D3D4D2DKDJD6S7S4SASKCQH8CKC4H9HAC7H2SQS5S3H5DQD9S8D8DTH7C9S6SJCTS9HJD5STCJHK]400|300[/hv]

Result : 4♥WX-3 500

 

Another table :

[hv=http://www.bridgebase.com/tools/handviewer.html?sn=&s=SA963HKQ2D864CQ86&wn=sillafu&w=SKHJT98543DAQT52C&nn=&n=SQJT7HA76DK97CAK5&en=&e=S8542HDJ3CJT97432&d=s&v=n&b=&a=P4HDP4SPPP&p=H3H6S2H2C9C6SKC5HTHAS4HQD3D4DAD7H5H7S5HKC2C8D2CK&c=7]400|300[/hv]

 

Result :4♠S-3 300

[mike777]

1) you cannot understand pass?

2) see rule of nine

3) 4 level plus 3 trumps plus 2 honors=9 so pass 4+3=2=9

 

 

you may disagree

 

but that does not mean do not understand

[mcphee]

I do not agree that it is clear to bid 4S at all. Double is take out in nature and shows a good hand. It does not promiss 4S. The vul game bonus is a big temptation for me, however an even bigger temptation is a plus score. My hand does not yell offense. My H values are not good offensively either. This is starting to get really easy because if I pass I am getting a PLUS score, if I bid 4S and find just 3 card supportI might even be doubled for a massive loss of total imps. For me the reward factor for bidding a game does not even come close to justify the risk.

 

On the days partner holds 3S I think most times we become a big winner passing. Even with 4 if he holds 2H we will likely go down. We are very soft in D which our LHO might be able to ruff on the go. I do not believe if I pass it will become a serious error or loss of imps.

[SteveMoe]

Pass this takeout double. Thinking is an overbid. You have no ruffing values, and power in their suit. Expect carnage. Partner may act under pressure so shape might not be ideal for takeout.

[Cyberyeti]

Pass this takeout double. Thinking is an overbid. You have no ruffing values, and power in their suit. Expect carnage. Partner may act under pressure so shape might not be ideal for takeout.

 

Whenever I pass, partner has some 51(34), 4♠ is cold and we only take 100.

[ggwhiz]

Whenever I pass, partner has some 51(34), 4♠ is cold and we only take 100.

 

At my table partner is 4-2-4-3 and the spades split 5-0

[gszes]

Lets not overthink the situation. On defense we have 2 tricks and need only 2 tricks from p to score a plus. On offense we have 1 and maybe a useful club Q so partners hand has to be worth close to 8 tricks for us to get a (large) plus score. Odds of that are pretty slim so choosing to pass is the risk vs reward favorite since there is a lot of risk for a negative score and much smaller chance of a large gain AND that assumes we are never x when we bid and things are not breaking well for us.