level of player

[sceptic]

Hi, Just curious about what strengths you need to be advanced and what weaknesses stop you becoming advanced,

 

what I am trying to get at is to become advanced is one thing, to become an expert is another, what in your opinion, are the qualities and skills you need to become advanced and what qualities and skills that you may lack prevent you from becoming advanced?

[hrothgar]

Here are my own thoughts regarding levels of play.

 

Beginners are players who are still learning the "basics". By this, I mean that they are mastering the mechanics of the game and learning "standard" bidding.

 

Intermediates players expose themselves to more complex topics (end plays, squeezes, blocking and unblocking plays, etc.)

 

Advanced players are able to successfully plan a squeeze or work out an end play. However, this requires "work". Advanced players need to maintain focus/concentration in order to get the hand right. Furthermore, maintaining this focus is tiring... An advanced player can play brilliantly on some hands and dreadfully on others.

 

The difference between an expert and an advanced player is consistency. Expert players spend much more time in "the zone". Some experts may have developed tricks to reduce the costs associated with "top-level" visualizations. Others may simply have more discipline. Maintaining focuus is still a pain, but they're able to do so for 3.5 hours straight. Either way, the experts are able to play like a brillaint advanced player board after board...

[hotShot]

Well it is hard to define, because in the end is is just a question of minimising wrong decisions.

 

You start to be intermediate when you master your own bidding system, meaning that you reach the right contract in uncontested auctions. During the phase of being intermediate you learn to "play" what you bid. The most importent lecture to learn is not to take your top tricks at once, but develope as much tricks as possible while you have everything under control. And you learn to master counting.

 

Advanced player avoid to make gifts (e.g. at the first lead), master contested auctions, take those tricks that opps produce by dropping the wrong cards (counting!) and most of all, they know when "to win it at another board".

 

Experts are advanced players that can create extra chances for their opps to make mistakes. They do it by pushing you to the limit. They won't go further then their own limit, but that might be enough to make you go one step to far.

[epeeist]

Since the last time one of these what is advanced/expert threads started, I rechecked what BBO itself (through help, user profile, settings) says.

 

Advanced: "Someone who has been consistently successful in clubs or minor tournaments".

 

Expert: "Someone who as enjoyed success in major national tournaments"

 

See: http://www.bridgebase.com/help/3/lobby.html then click settings, then user profile, then skill level.

 

That is, one should self-assess oneself based on ACTUAL PERFORMANCE IN TOURNAMENTS, NOT A SELF-ASSESSMENT OF HOW "GOOD" ONE IS :D

 

Basing it on actual performance -- as an honest person will do, in accord with the guidelines -- would mean that the vast majority of "advanced" and "expert" players should downgrade their skill level. B) If someone can recognize and execute trump coups and criss-cross squeezes and the like, and has bidding systems that can pinpoint virtually every card, but for whatever reason does not enjoy consistent success in clubs or minor tournaments, THEY ARE NOT ADVANCED.

 

Maybe they can't maintain concentration, or don't have right IMP or matchpoint strategy (e.g. don't risk contract for overtricks when they should at matchpoints?) or whatever, but results are what matters.

 

Outside BBO -- i.e. in "real life" I still think, the only true measure of bridge expertise is SUCCESS. Which is what I think the BBO self-applied ratings are intended to recognize, and which the stars (which require from what I've read international success to be granted), and the numerical/JQKA profile ratings for play in certain tournaments do recognize. That is, consistency in good performances. Anyone who rates themselves otherwise is fooling themselves and others.

 

I'm sure there are some expert bridge analysts or authors, who may be expert in their field, but unless they can play like experts they are not expert bridge PLAYERS.

 

If I were consistently successful in online BBO tournaments (I'd call those minor tournaments) I'd upgrade my profile to advanced. As it is, I'm only inconsistently successful... :lol: If I were like some so-called BBO "experts", the fact that I once earned a fraction of a red point in the only NABC I ever entered would mean I had enjoyed enjoyed "success in major national tournaments" and could upgrade my skill level... :lol:

[luke warm]

i agree 100% with richard... that's a very practical way to evaluate skill... as far as the bbo definition goes, it makes sense to tie in skill with accomplishment... however, it can't be the only criteria... i know a lot of very good players (i'd call them advanced) who simply don't get out much

[pclayton]

Here are my own thoughts regarding levels of play.

 

Beginners are players who are still learning the "basics".  By this, I mean that they are mastering the mechanics of the game and learning "standard" bidding.

 

Intermediates players expose themselves to more complex topics (end plays, squeezes, blocking and unblocking plays, etc.)

 

Advanced players are able to successfully plan a squeeze or work out an end play.  However, this requires "work".  Advanced players need to maintain focus/concentration  in order to get the hand right.  Furthermore, maintaining this focus is tiring...  An advanced player can play brilliantly on some hands and dreadfully on others.

 

The difference between an expert and an advanced player is consistency.  Expert players spend much more time in "the zone".  Some experts may have developed tricks to reduce the costs associated with "top-level" visualizations.  Others may simply have more discipline.  Maintaining focuus is still a pain, but they're able to do so for 3.5 hours straight.  Either way, the experts are able to play like a brillaint advanced player board after board...

I have a somewhat different view.

 

I don't care how good of a technician you are; if you can't win (or finish high), then you can't be called an expert. Anyone that puffs his chest talking about his exotic endplay doesn't cut it with me. Sort of like the duffer that shoots 110 but brags about that wedge shot he backed up 15 feet, or the 7 iron he had to slice 30 yards around the trees ....just like the pros.

 

What level do I mean? Top 3 at regionals consistently (and winning the top bracket KO's against the pro teams), making the cut at open national events, etc.. Any level less can be won by less-than-expert performances.

 

Not to say that all that win are experts either, but it is a basic prerequisite as far as Im concerned. There's that random person that is in the right place at the right time that the bridge gods deal a win to. Hardly an expert though.

[Walddk]

Intermediates players expose themselves to more complex topics (end plays, squeezes, blocking and unblocking plays, etc.)

That is definitely not how I see it. An intermediate player should not be exposed to squeezes, endplays etc. He/she has plenty to do with learning the basics still.

 

The difference between experts and all other categories is quite simple: Experts make less mistakes than the rest. Or as Bob Hamman once put it:

 

"Experts play badly, the rest even worse".

 

Roland

[Fluffy]

Advanced players know how to make the first 2 rounds of bidding without opponent's intervention making no big mistakes.