goffster Posted January 9, 2016 Report Share Posted January 9, 2016 when the spade jack is lead at trick 10, it is 100% obviousto take the queen and lead the club ten. There can be no second choice whatsoever. The robot however ducks! Giving up a trick. This makes me believe that GIB enters a "Dont care" zonewhen it realizes the contract cannot be beat, even at matchpoints. http://tinyurl.com/zcv27gf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1eyedjack Posted January 9, 2016 Report Share Posted January 9, 2016 Ummm - no hand Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goffster Posted January 9, 2016 Author Report Share Posted January 9, 2016 sorry, linked added to hand Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bbradley62 Posted January 10, 2016 Report Share Posted January 10, 2016 It appears that West simulates holdings, and all of his simulations say that North's last non-spade is ♥J, in which case his play actually doesn't matter. Ick! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1eyedjack Posted January 10, 2016 Report Share Posted January 10, 2016 It doesn't matter what north's last nonspade is. West wins q and leads club. If north discards then west wins trick 12. If north ruffs then west wins trick 13. OP is correct. There is no simulation where west ducking does not concede a trick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bbradley62 Posted January 10, 2016 Report Share Posted January 10, 2016 It doesn't matter what north's last nonspade is. West wins q and leads club. If north discards then west wins trick 12. If north ruffs then west wins trick 13. OP is correct. There is no simulation where west ducking does not concede a trickYes, any (reasonable) human would have played as you say. But we all (should) know that this is not how GIB approaches the problem. GIB runs simulations to determine likelihoods of various holdings, and if his sample size is too small, weird things can happen. But, I wonder whether the 2♠ bid should preclude the possibility that North has exactly 5 spades and 4 hearts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1eyedjack Posted January 10, 2016 Report Share Posted January 10, 2016 You are right. Blind spot my side. Had visions of Heart Jack being high. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thorvald Posted January 10, 2016 Report Share Posted January 10, 2016 At the 3 card ending the following information is available to West - only based on the actual play North has a singleton club (He dropped a ♥ at trick 3)North has a least 3 diamonds (He followed 3 rounds)North started with 3 ♥s as he ruffed a ♥ in trick 10North started with exactly 5 ♠s, neither partner nor dummy could follow the third round of spades So the actual situation is 100 % known So there must be a flaw in the GIB software Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icer Posted January 10, 2016 Report Share Posted January 10, 2016 when the spade jack is lead at trick 10, it is 100% obviousto take the queen and lead the club ten. There can be no second choice whatsoever. The robot however ducks! Giving up a trick. This makes me believe that GIB enters a "Dont care" zonewhen it realizes the contract cannot be beat, even at matchpoints. http://tinyurl.com/zcv27gf so you think GIB is bad? i hope you can see how GIB plays 4♠ here: http://www.bridgebase.com/tools/handviewer.html?bbo=y&lin=pn|diko65,~~M32312,~~M32310,~~M32311|st||md|3S68QAHTJD37KAC68J%2CS279TJKH39KDC39TA%2CS5H456D24589JQC25%2C|rh||ah|Board%201|sv|o|mb|3D|an|Preempt%20--%207%2B%20!D%3B%2010-%20HCP%3B%20!DQ%3B%206%2B%20total%20points%20|mb|p|mb|4D|an|2%2B%20!D%3B%2011-%20HCP|mb|4S|an|6%2B%20!S%3B%2016-19%20total%20points%20|mb|p|mb|p|mb|p|pc|DQ|pc|D6|pc|DA|pc|S7|pc|C9|pc|C2|pc|CK|pc|C6|pc|S4|pc|S6|pc|SJ|pc|S5|pc|H3|pc|H5|pc|HQ|pc|HT|pc|S3|pc|S8|pc|S2|pc|D5|pc|DK|pc|S9|pc|D8|pc|DT|pc|H9|pc|H6|pc|H2|pc|HJ|pc|D7|pc|ST|pc|D2|pc|C4|pc|C3|pc|C5|pc|CQ|pc|C8|pc|C7|pc|CJ|pc|CA|pc|H4|pc|SK|pc|DJ|pc|H7|pc|SA|pc|SQ|pc|CT|pc|D9|pc|H8|pc|D3|pc|HK|pc|D4|pc|HA| Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gwnn Posted January 10, 2016 Report Share Posted January 10, 2016 [hv=http://www.bridgebase.com/tools/handviewer.html?bbo=y&lin=pn|diko65,~~M32312,~~M32310,~~M32311|st||md|3S68QAHTJD37KAC68J%2CS279TJKH39KDC39TA%2CS5H456D24589JQC25%2C|rh||ah|Board%201|sv|o|mb|3D|an|Preempt%20--%207%2B%20!D%3B%2010-%20HCP%3B%20!DQ%3B%206%2B%20total%20points%20|mb|p|mb|4D|an|2%2B%20!D%3B%2011-%20HCP|mb|4S|an|6%2B%20!S%3B%2016-19%20total%20points%20|mb|p|mb|p|mb|p|pc|DQ|pc|D6|pc|DA|pc|S7|pc|C9|pc|C2|pc|CK|pc|C6|pc|S4|pc|S6|pc|SJ|pc|S5|pc|H3|pc|H5|pc|HQ|pc|HT|pc|S3|pc|S8|pc|S2|pc|D5|pc|DK|pc|S9|pc|D8|pc|DT|pc|H9|pc|H6|pc|H2|pc|HJ|pc|D7|pc|ST|pc|D2|pc|C4|pc|C3|pc|C5|pc|CQ|pc|C8|pc|C7|pc|CJ|pc|CA|pc|H4|pc|SK|pc|DJ|pc|H7|pc|SA|pc|SQ|pc|CT|pc|D9|pc|H8|pc|D3|pc|HK|pc|D4|pc|HA|]400|300[/hv] Use {hv=http://www.bridgebase.com/etcetcetc}400|300{/hv} but square brackets instead of curly ones. And yes, wow. edit: wow squared!! I didn't even see the play in hearts. wtf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bbradley62 Posted January 10, 2016 Report Share Posted January 10, 2016 ...North started with 3 ♥s as he ruffed a ♥ in trick 10... So the actual situation is 100 % known So there must be a flaw in the GIB softwareYou're right! I missed the ruff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephen Tu Posted January 11, 2016 Report Share Posted January 11, 2016 Referring to OP's hand, yeah that's really bizarre. Hand is double dummy at that point, GIB shouldn't be getting this wrong. Interestingly I put it into my ancient home copy of GIB, it makes the exact same error. Inexplicable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vampyr Posted January 18, 2016 Report Share Posted January 18, 2016 edit: wow squared!! I didn't even see the play in hearts. wtf Perhaps some disgruntled employee has inserted a misere mode into GIB? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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