Slamming with bal long minor opp 1N

[BillHiggin]

[hv=pc=n&n=sakha32dkqt752c32]133|100[/hv]

Nice hand (spot cards approximated) - and P opens 1N (15-17).

Using 4 suit transfers (assume the BBO Advanced FD card), plan your auction.

If you begin with 2N transfer to ♦, opener will call 3♣ (showing enthusiasm for [diamonds. That FD card will allow you to show slam interest with shortness (which you do not have), but is otherwise silent on continuations so please describe yours.

[nige1]

[hv=pc=n&n=sakha32dkqt752c32]133|100|

Nice hand (spot cards approximated) - and P opens 1N (15-17).

Using 4 suit transfers (assume the BBO Advanced FD card), plan your auction.

If you begin with 2N transfer to ♦, opener will call 3♣ (showing enthusiasm for ♦. That FD card will allow you to show slam interest with shortness (which you do not have), but is otherwise silent on continuations so please describe yours.[/hv]

For us action with such hands is undiscussed. Perhaps you could try (In order of preference)...

1. 5N. Choice of small-slams, giving partner a chance to declare 6♦ or 6N to protect his tenaces, including the hoped for ♣ tenace. Crude but less ambiguous than other efforts.
2. 4♥. Kickback?
3. 4♣. Improvised last train? Retransfer? Implying major controls?
4. 4N. Quantitative?
5. 3♥/♠. Feigning a shortage

[Cyberyeti]

Teams or pairs ?

 

I'm going to bid a slam here absent lack of a club control.

 

xxxx, Kx, Axx, AKxx is a very good grand and not worth a 1N opener

 

I would probably bid 3♠ given your system as partner can't have anything better than QJ there so won't misevaluate too badly.

 

If partner bids 3N I can bid 4♦ exposing the club issue and if partner cooperates now we're happy, if he bids 4♣ I can take control.

[Charlie Yu]

4♥ Kickback -> 5♥ King ask? The cards I really want to know are ♣A, ♦A, ♣K and ♥K. If I can find ♣A, ♦A and a King 7♦ looks good. If I miss an Ace, just sign off 6♦.

[rmnka447]

It's probably remote, but partner could have something like ♠ QJxx ♥ KQJx ♦ AJx ♣ Jx where slam has no play. So immediately forcing to slam is a bit frisky for me.

 

I think I'd go with the bids Cyberyeti suggested.

 

But first things first, make sure you don't have 2 ♣ losers before you head for slam.

[Phil]

3M is shortness so that's out. 4d seems obvious. Hopefully partner takes over and we can show our three keys, trump Q and spade King and leave it up to partner.

[1eyedjack]

6D may make without a Club control on a non-Club lead. I would not give a straight 6D nil points.Take rmnka's hand, for example. It only has no play if they take the first two tricks. Which may happen, but no particular reason to expect it over other possibilities.

[ggwhiz]

How about exclusion on clubs to blow off the lead.

[Cyberyeti]

It's probably remote, but partner could have something like ♠ QJxx ♥ KQJx ♦ AJx ♣ Jx where slam has no play. So immediately forcing to slam is a bit frisky for me.

 

I think I'd go with the bids Cyberyeti suggested.

 

But first things first, make sure you don't have 2 ♣ losers before you head for slam.

 

There are 2 approaches, if you're going to blast, let them lead completely blind, I wouldn't crime Gerber here and then blasting when you know the ace/king count. Has the added bonus that if LHO doubles Gerber it could put you off if you're missing an ace.

 

Slam is far from no play on the hand you give, and if you've blasted the pressure is on to find the lead. Many people lead trumps against slams.

[gszes]

enthusiastic eh? hmmm would QJxx KQJx AJx QJx be enthusiastic? Not in my book, what is there to be enthusiastic about? If all p wanted to was if we were max and they could have merely invited us to bid 3n. So enthusiastic should mean a hand with controls a dia fit and chances at 3n or slammish if p wishes. ANYTHING that comes close to that description should make a small slam a virtual lay down so the real question should be how close to bidding a grand are we and how can we explore if we feel it is needed?

 

The !CA !DA (!HK or !CK) put us at 11 tricks and we have used 11 of our enthusiastic p 15-17. We still have 4-6 hcp to spare. My feeling is a 7d bid should be the best guess here since we can make 13 if p happens to have 5 clubs or Kx in hearts (or numerous other holdings that will allow us to make 7n) and this should be the best spot either MP or IMPS since getting to 7 on around 32 hcp will usually be a great score no matter the form of scoring. If I had the tools needed to find out if p had club length or 2 hearts I would go that route but w/o some sophisticated asking bids I go with what appears to be the most likely road to success.

[mikestar13]

4♥ Kickback -> 5♥ King ask? The cards I really want to know are ♣A, ♦A, ♣K and ♥K. If I can find ♣A, ♦A and a King 7♦ looks good. If I miss an Ace, just sign off 6♦.

 

Totally agree--the grand is good with these cards, and lacking them, a small slam should make in 2 cases:

1. Partner controls clubs.
2. Clubs aren't lead.

If we stop in six, I'm going for 6NT in case partner is ♣Kx(x+).

[Trump Echo]

There are 2 approaches, if you're going to blast, let them lead completely blind, I wouldn't crime Gerber here and then blasting when you know the ace/king count. Has the added bonus that if LHO doubles Gerber it could put you off if you're missing an ace.

 

Slam is far from no play on the hand you give, and if you've blasted the pressure is on to find the lead. Many people lead trumps against slams.

 

+1

[lycier]

[hv=pc=n&n=sakha32dkqt752c32]133|100[/hv]

Nice hand (spot cards approximated) - and P opens 1N (15-17).

Using 4 suit transfers (assume the BBO Advanced FD card), plan your auction.

If you begin with 2N transfer to ♦, opener will call 3♣ (showing enthusiasm for♦. That FD card will allow you to show slam interest with shortness (which you do not have), but is otherwise silent on continuations so please describe yours.

 

 

Very good topic.

 

I have to say there is a defect of the system in this version !

1- According to the content of this system,my plan is to bid 4♣ showing short suit even with doubleton after opener bidding 3♣,otherwise no way to solve this problem.

In other words,we can't perfectly solve this sort of problems on single minor suited with balanced hand if employ this version system.

If you insist on it,of course,the best approach is to employ Walsh Transfer Relay.

 

 

2- You said "If you begin with 2N transfer to 3♦, opener will call 3♣ (showing enthusiasm for ♦. That FD card will allow you to show slam interest with shortness (which you do not have)."

 

This is a precondition for the worst,also is a biggest problem. Here let's read the book "Advanced Bidding 3.0 version" (on page 6) by American expert Paul F. Dubois.

Paul F. Dubois said :

"1N - 2N!(transfers to 3♦)

– 3♣! (shows Qxx or better in diamonds)

Responder can bid 3♦ to decline the invitation, or bid stoppers up the line."

 

I think this version is more better.According to the approach of Paul F. Dubois,after 3♣, it is very easy to cuebid 3♥ up the line,and then

1)- if responder rebid 3nt, responder will be sure to cuebid 4♠ so as to let opener make a final decision.

2)- If responder rebid 4♣,this is a great news,responder will be cuebid 4♠ so as to let opener be a initiator relievedly. Let opener be a declarer.

 

What else? Any suggestion?

[helene_t]

Transfer then 4♦.

 

But maybe it is practical just to punt 6nt at MPs and 6♦ at IMPs.

[lycier]

Transfer then 4♦.

 

But maybe it is practical just to punt 6nt at MPs and 6♦ at IMPs.

 

For me, I defined 4♦ as minorwood.

The key problem is responder need to tell opener no stoper in ♣.If opener hold high cards something like :♠QJ-- ,♥KQJ- ,♦AJx ,♣QJ--, who can make 6♦/6nt?

[helene_t]

For me, I defined 4♦ as minorwood.

I play that also in one partnership but that means we don't have a way to show this hand.

 

That mean we just have to gamble on the club control here. I think that is ok. Partner's 3♣ bid wasn't doubled so LHO doesn't have any particular reason to lead a club unless he has ♣AK himself. Of course we may chose 6NT and then it is RHO who is on lead.

[lycier]

If we maybe find good fit in all the side suit, we can get 7♦.

[helene_t]

If we maybe find good fit in all the side suit, we can get 7♦.

Interesting. Suppose partner shows two aces and two kings.

 

We have 12 top tricks so we need one more. We know that he has one more picture card because otherwise he would have only 14 points. A queen would do unless it is ♠Qx. ♣J or ♥J would require a finese. There are also chances of a heart ruff or maybe some squeeze or defensive mistake. Then again we could be unlucky to lose a diamond trick.

[Cyberyeti]

Interesting. Suppose partner shows two aces and two kings.

 

We have 12 top tricks so we need one more. We know that he has one more picture card because otherwise he would have only 14 points. A queen would do unless it is ♠Qx. ♣J or ♥J would require a finese. There are also chances of a heart ruff or maybe some squeeze or defensive mistake. Then again we could be unlucky to lose a diamond trick.

 

The death hand is J♦ and no parking space for the third heart.

[BillHiggin]

I really appreciate all the replies!

The actual situation was probably beyond any reasonable solution by normal agreements (i.e. does opener have the right major suit queen?).

 

Actual hands (true spot cards this time):

 

[hv=pc=n&s=sq93hj86da93cakqt&n=sakhat2dkqt876c92]133|200[/hv]

 

We had at least one bidding accident (my error) and so bid the laydown 7♦ for all the wrong reasons.

One other table bid the even better 7N on an even more screwed up auction ( 1N 2D; 2H 4N; 5H 7N )

4 pairs bid to 6N (one of which found some way of failing at that contract)

4 pairs bid to 6♦

3 pairs stopped in 3N

2 pairs stopped in 5D

[Charlie Yu]

enthusiastic eh? hmmm would QJxx KQJx AJx QJx be enthusiastic? Not in my book, what is there to be enthusiastic about? If all p wanted to was if we were max and they could have merely invited us to bid 3n. So enthusiastic should mean a hand with controls a dia fit and chances at 3n or slammish if p wishes. ANYTHING that comes close to that description should make a small slam a virtual lay down so the real question should be how close to bidding a grand are we and how can we explore if we feel it is needed?

 

The !CA !DA (!HK or !CK) put us at 11 tricks and we have used 11 of our enthusiastic p 15-17. We still have 4-6 hcp to spare. My feeling is a 7d bid should be the best guess here since we can make 13 if p happens to have 5 clubs or Kx in hearts (or numerous other holdings that will allow us to make 7n) and this should be the best spot either MP or IMPS since getting to 7 on around 32 hcp will usually be a great score no matter the form of scoring. If I had the tools needed to find out if p had club length or 2 hearts I would go that route but w/o some sophisticated asking bids I go with what appears to be the most likely road to success.

If p has ♣QJx, I don't see opps leading ♣s very often.

[lycier]

If p has ♣QJx, I don't see opps leading ♣s very often.

 

What you said really isn't the reasons to bid slam,your basic attitude is not correct.

[Caitlynne]

I don't know, given those methods, diamonds has been agreed (unless you follow with 3NT or a quantitative 4NT), so why not start cue bidding with 3H. You know partner can't cue bid spades, and you are looking for a 4C cue bid. If you get it, you can temporize with 4D to see if partner can bid 4H to show you the King of hearts. If partner does bid 4H, you have an easy 4S. If partner does something encouraging (e.g., 4NT which should NOT be Blackwood after all these cue bids or 5C, you have another spade cue bid available to try for a grand. Anyway, that would be my "undiscussed but standard" approach.

[Caitlynne]

I don't know, given those methods, diamonds has been agreed (unless you follow with 3NT or a quantitative 4NT), so why not start cue bidding with 3H. You know partner can't cue bid spades, and you are looking for a 4C cue bid. If you get it, you can temporize with 4D to see if partner can bid 4H to show you the King of hearts. If partner does bid 4H, you have an easy 4S. If partner does something encouraging (e.g., 4NT which should NOT be Blackwood after all these cue bids or 5C, you have another spade cue bid available to try for a grand. Anyway, that would be my "undiscussed but standard" approach.

[Caitlynne]

I don't know, given those methods, diamonds has been agreed (unless you follow with 3NT or a quantitative 4NT), so why not start cue bidding with 3H. You know partner can't cue bid spades, and you are looking for a 4C cue bid. If you get it, you can temporize with 4D to see if partner can bid 4H to show you the King of hearts. If partner does bid 4H, you have an easy 4S. If partner does something encouraging (e.g., 4NT which should NOT be Blackwood after all these cue bids or 5C, you have another spade cue bid available to try for a grand. Anyway, that would be my "undiscussed but standard" approach.