lycier Posted December 6, 2015 Report Share Posted December 6, 2015 Hi Moderators :I have a puzzled question and need your help. [hv=pc=n&s=s842hkt963djcqt54&w=sajt63h2daqt2ck63&n=sq5haqj875d8764c7&e=sk97h4dk953caj982&d=n&v=0&b=1&a=2h(6H%2C6-11cp)p2s(suit%2Cforcing%20a%20round)p2n(3-card%20S%20or%20honor%20doubleton)p4hppp]399|300[/hv]Result :4♥N-1 How would you rule?I mean if South free psychic bid is lawful,I will learn a good artful bidding method,otherwise I should give it up. Thanks Lycier Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vampyr Posted December 6, 2015 Report Share Posted December 6, 2015 This is called a "baby psyche" and is perfectly legal. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMB1 Posted December 6, 2015 Report Share Posted December 6, 2015 If opener is not allowed (systemically) to bid above 3♥ then the rebids to 2♠ might be seen as psychic control. This might make 2♠ psyche illegal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hrothgar Posted December 6, 2015 Report Share Posted December 6, 2015 The 2♠ call is perfectly legal. West's failure to take action is an egregious error. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ahydra Posted December 6, 2015 Report Share Posted December 6, 2015 hrothgar, what would you propose W does? (TOX of 4H?) ahydra Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gwnn Posted December 6, 2015 Report Share Posted December 6, 2015 R/S advocated that X be a penalty double (showing 5 spades), while other people on the forums think it should just be a takeout of 2H (treating 2S as a raise, essentially). Either way, that seems OK on west. I don't like 3S on only AJTxx, since sometimes S will have actual spades. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lycier Posted December 6, 2015 Author Report Share Posted December 6, 2015 So many replies,thanks to everyonehttp://www.bridgebase.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gifThis is called a "baby psyche" and is perfectly legal. Now I got it,thank you very much.While I told many of my club members including some experts,they had some different opinions.Some experts of our country thought that in fact it have been not allowed in most of domestic event unless it is at high level match.If play against foreign players,of course,it is ok because that is a little of matters of foreign director,have nothing to do with the directors of our country.lol...http://www.bridgebase.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif It is first time for us to hear of the concept of "baby psyche".Alway learning from you.Thank you, and again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hrothgar Posted December 6, 2015 Report Share Posted December 6, 2015 hrothgar, what would you propose W does? (TOX of 4H?) ahydra X (Which I play as a penalty double of Spades) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lycier Posted December 6, 2015 Author Report Share Posted December 6, 2015 BBF is really a nice place.http://www.bridgebase.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve2005 Posted December 6, 2015 Report Share Posted December 6, 2015 I have done such a psyche lots of times and had it done against me many times.Is easy to defend against you need 2♠ X to be penalty and you will expose psyche If your double is takeout your letting people walk all over you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevenG Posted December 6, 2015 Report Share Posted December 6, 2015 I have done such a psyche lots of timesDoes your partner know? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve2005 Posted December 6, 2015 Report Share Posted December 6, 2015 Does your partner know?no often we get bad results if she raise lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lycier Posted December 6, 2015 Author Report Share Posted December 6, 2015 If opener is not allowed (systemically) to bid above 3♥ then the rebids to 2♠ might be seen as psychic control. This might make 2♠ psyche illegal. For me,opener is allowed (systemically) to bid above 3♥,as a part of Ogust exptension,3♠= 3-card support with two top card plus one small card in it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vampyr Posted December 6, 2015 Report Share Posted December 6, 2015 I have done such a psyche lots of times and had it done against me many times.Is easy to defend against you need 2♠ X to be penalty and you will expose psyche This applies on the 1-level too, where typically X shows 4 spades and 2♠ shows 5. And if it goes 1♥-(X)-1♠, double is often used here also to expose the psyche. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BudH Posted December 6, 2015 Report Share Posted December 6, 2015 The 2♠ call is perfectly legal. West's failure to take action is an egregious error. At none vulnerable, East with the heart shortness needs to get in there with a takeout double, despite bare minimum values and having only three spades. Then, if South bids his baby 2♠ psyche, West can double exposing the psyche. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
helene_t Posted December 7, 2015 Report Share Posted December 7, 2015 For me,opener is allowed (systemically) to bid above 3♥,as a part of Ogust exptension,3♠= 3-card support with two top card plus one small card in it.If this is their agreement then it is possibly a psyche control. I mean, if opener needs HHx of spades to bypass 3♥ then it is fairly riskfree. And if2♥-2♠3♠-4♥is to play then it is riskfree. Possibly the 2♠ needs to be explained as "asking bid, could be natural or a trial bid for 4♥ or 3NT, or a baby psyche" or some such. Anyway, I don't think it is trivial for EW to get this auction right. East could double 2♥ but it is borderline. W could double 2♠ if it shows this hand but that require agreements. Probably W would have doubled 2♠ if it had been disclosed as an asking bid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve2005 Posted December 7, 2015 Report Share Posted December 7, 2015 If this is their agreement then it is possibly a psyche control. I mean, if opener needs HHx of spades to bypass 3♥ then it is fairly riskfree. And if2♥-2♠3♠-4♥is to play then it is riskfree.This hardly risk free. Your aiming to get to 3♥. 4♥ is 1 higher and more likely to get doubled. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lycier Posted December 7, 2015 Author Report Share Posted December 7, 2015 Possibly the 2♠ needs to be explained as "asking bid, could be natural or a trial bid for 4♥ or 3NT, or a baby psyche" or some such. Helene_t, you said " asking bid ,could be natural or a trial bid for 4♥ or 3NT, or a baby psyche" or some such." just like " Brown Sticker "ish explanations,isn't it?http://www.bridgebase.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trinidad Posted December 7, 2015 Report Share Posted December 7, 2015 This hardly risk free. Your aiming to get to 3♥. 4♥ is 1 higher and more likely to get doubled.How often does a weak 2♥ opening have ♠HHx? If 3♥ is only bypassed when the 2♥ opener has ♠HHx (i.e. practically never) and if any rebid in hearts by responder is a sign-off then I would say that 2♠ is a controlled psyche. Rik 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pran Posted December 7, 2015 Report Share Posted December 7, 2015 How often does a weak 2♥ opening have ♠HHx? If 3♥ is only bypassed when the 2♥ opener has ♠HHx (i.e. practically never) and if any rebid in hearts by responder is a sign-off then I would say that 2♠ is a controlled psyche. RikHolding ♠HHx has never, and shall never prevent me from opening (weak) 2♥ if the heart suit and hand strength as such is suitable. "practically never" must be a huge exaggeration. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
helene_t Posted December 7, 2015 Report Share Posted December 7, 2015 But even if the psyche sometimes forces you to the 4 level it is still safe to use it with 4card hearts support. It is only unsafe if opener is allowed to bid 4s with 3card spade support. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lycier Posted December 7, 2015 Author Report Share Posted December 7, 2015 Holding ♠HHx has never, and shall never prevent me from opening (weak) 2♥ if the heart suit and hand strength as such is suitable. "practically never" must be a huge exaggeration. ♠KQx ♥Ajxxxx ♦xxxx ♣x Such 2♥ opening must be a huge exaggeration? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pran Posted December 7, 2015 Report Share Posted December 7, 2015 ♠KQx ♥Ajxxxx ♦xxxx ♣x Such 2♥ opening must be a huge exaggeration?Vul against non-vul?(And maybe change the minors to xxx - xx) What about♠KJx ♥ATxxxx♦xxx♣xx ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterAlan Posted December 8, 2015 Report Share Posted December 8, 2015 ♠KQx ♥Ajxxxx ♦xxxx ♣x Such 2♥ opening must be a huge exaggeration? Vul against non-vul?(And maybe change the minors to xxx - xx) What about♠KJx ♥ATxxxx♦xxx♣xx ? All these hands (including Pran's xxx - xx variation of Lycier's) have 14 cards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pran Posted December 8, 2015 Report Share Posted December 8, 2015 All these hands (including Pran's xxx - xx variation of Lycier's) have 14 cards.Oops! Take away a diamond in my examples! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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